San Francisco Red Light Camera Tickets
UPDATE 10/19/2005: 9 months after the ticket, I got the appeal decision in the mail. I won!
Like many cities in California, San Francisco has been using Automated Enforcement Systems (a.k.a. “Red Light Cameras”) at many of its intersections for several years now. Although the stated purpose is (of course) for safety, the real reason is revenue. If you are the unlucky recipient of one of the citations in the mail (as yours truly recently was) then this website is for you. It explains your options and relates my experience with the San Francisco court system.
Your choices:
- The picture isn’t of you. The registered owner is who gets sent the ticket. If the picture is not of you, sign the attached affidavit saying that the picture isn’t of you. Don’t lie — you’re saying under the penalty of purjury that it’s not you in the ticket. DO NOT, however, TELL THEM WHO IS IN THE PICTURE. It’s their job to figure that out, not yours. Don’t rat out your friends and family.
- Pay it. If $371 is worth less to you than a lost morning in court, then just pay the ticket and move on. You may or may not want to do traffic school to keep the points from appearing on your license. While I’ve never done it myself, I hear the on-line version of traffic school is fairly painless.
- Trial + Traffic school. This is probably the best option for most people. Go to the clerk. Post bail (the amount of your ticket) and plead not-guilty. Get a time for trial. SHOW UP ON TIME. When the court session starts, the clerk will allow you to have your fine reduced to only $50 if you take traffic school (with a $30 fee). For a total of $80, you’re done and the points are not added to your license. NOTE: If you’ve already done traffic school in the past 18 months, you’re not eligible to do it again. Sorry.
- Plead not-guilty. Lots of options here. You can skip the arraignment and demand your right to a speedy trial (within 45 days) by going to the clerk and posting the $371 bond. Sometimes, due to the short notice, the officer isn’t properly subpoenaed and won’t know that he/she needs to testify against you (this happened in my case). If the officer doesn’t appear to testify, your case is dismissed. Or, the officer could already be in court to testify against other people and will realize that she needs to testify against you too, and will testify anyway (yep, this happened to me).Or, you can go to your arraignment and plead not-guilty there. This gives you the chance to make pre-trial motions. This makes the process very drawn-out — expect your trial date to be many months in the future.
Pleading not-guilty
NOTE WELL: This takes a lot of time and will really try your patience. DO NOT EXPECT TO WIN. In fact, you should expect to lose. Sorry, but the trial court for traffic and other infractions in San Francisco assumes GUILT. Moreover, the red light camera systems are considered infallible and therefore beyond reproach. AGAIN, YOU WILL LOSE.
Don’t waste your time
- People often say that with traffic cases you should plead not-guilty and take your chances that the officer won’t show up. (If the officer doesn’t show up, your case is immediately dismissed.) I would agree with this strategy for all non-red light camera tickets. However, from what I can tell, the officers assisting with the red light camera prosecutions do not have normal police “beats”, and instead have a desk job, probably in the same building. This means they have a high liklihood of showing up.
- If you are planning to contend that you don’t run red lights, you are a safe driver, and you’ve never done it before, do not waste your time. (Most murderers haven’t murdered anyone before, either.) You will be found GUILTY. Your fine will be lowered to $300, but they won’t grant you traffic school. You are better off taking the $80 buy-off deal mentioned above.
- If you are planning to contend that the light was really yellow and the camera was wrong or broken, DO NOT WASTE YOUR TIME. You will be found GUILTY. I promise. Don’t forget the the cameras are considered infallible by the trial court judge. Even if it was broken!
Argue the law
While the cameras themselves might be considered infallible, the city has errored in the way they are set up and operated. You should expect to LOSE at trial even if you object to the evidence on these grounds. HOWEVER, these MAY help you get your ticket overturned in appeal. That’s right, if you want any chance of winning, you will have to APPEAL. This takes a lot of time and energy. If you’re fed up and willing to put in the time it takes to appeal, then go ahead and plead not-guilty. Otherwise, don’t waste your time and take the $80 buy-out deal.
What to do:
- Buy the book Fight Your Ticket in California from Nolo Press. Make sure you get thee one specifically for California.
- Go to the Hall of Justice (850 Bryant St.) with a copy of your citation many weeks before your trial. Parking hint: You can park on 6th street after 9am. so show up at 8:59 and you’ll have all the free parking you want. Otherwise you might have to pay the garages that charge $6 for the first 1/2 hour. Go to the 5th floor, turn right at the hallway, and go to the end. This is the Police Legal department. Tell the friendly officers (really, they have always been very friendly in this office) that you want to fill out an “Informal discovery request”. They will give you a short form. Fill it out, and the City’s “Photo prosecution packet” will be sent to you. This is exactly what they will present at trial, which is always a good thing to have beforehand.
Issues:
(For a good overview of many of these issues, read Highwayrobbery.net).
- The city has not property issued warning tickets as required by 21455.5. CVC (California vehicle code) 21455.5 allows cities to put up Automated Enforcement Systems if they follow the guidelines set forth in the statue. One of the statutes is that “Prior to issuing citations under this section, a local jurisdiction utilizing an automated traffic enforcement system shall commence a program to issue only warning notices for 30 days.” While most cities (I believe San Francisco is included) took this to mean warning tickets only needed to be issued 30 days before the first camera in a city, a recent court ruling in Southern California mandated that EACH camera is succeptible to the 30-day rule. At trial, I suggest asking the prosecution’s witness (the officer) if they issued only warning tickets for the first 30 days of YOUR camera’s operation.
- CVC 21455.5 also has very strict requirement with respect to intersection signage. 21455.5(a) basically says the city has to label an AES-enabled intersection from all sides. There is one exception: if they choose not to label the intersection from all sides, then it can “posts signs at all major entrances to the city, including, at a minimum, freeways, bridges, and state highway routes.” Note that San Francisco DOES NOT post the required signs on major city entrances like bridges, freeways, and state highway routes. Instead, they choose to label major freeway exits. This is not compliant with the letter or the spirit of the law. While some AES-enforced intersections ARE labeled with signage in all direction, many are completely un-labeled meaning the city is falling back on the fact that they think they’ve labeled the “freeways, bridges, and state highway routes”. If you bring this up at trial (as I did) expect to LOSE. By bringing it up at trial, though, you can use it in your appeal.
- Interesting pre-trial motions. Present them at your arraignment. They probably won’t work, but might be useful ammunition during your appeal.
- Try to subpoena the camera’s “source code”. The camera is more than a camera. It’s a computer. You have the right to question your accuser in court. Your accuser is this computer. You should have the right to know exactly how it is programmed. If this motion is granted, you will probably never see the “source code” (it’s a trade secret) and therefore I would expect the prosecution to drop the charges. It’s worth a shot. It will probably help your case if you know how (ie have the credentials) to interpet any “source code” that you might receive.
- The camera is disallowed under California’s “Speed trap” laws. This is a very interesting one, and will take further research. CVC 40801 forbids speed traps in California. “What does this have to do with Red Light Cameras?” you might ask. Well, let me tell you. CVC 40801 says “No peace officer or other person shall use a speed trap in arresting, or participating or assisting in the arrest of, any person for any alleged violation of this code nor shall any speed trap be used in securing evidence as to the speed of any vehicle for the purpose of an arrest or prosecution under this code.” CVS 40802 says “A particular section of a highway measured as to distance and with boundaries marked, designated, or otherwise determined in order that the speed of a vehicle may be calculated by securing the time it takes the vehicle to travel the known distance.” What does this mean to you? Well, the Red Light Computer decided to take a picture of you because you were headed for the intersection at a rate of speed high enough to assume that you were going to go past the ‘stop line’. It knew this because there are coils of wire in the pavement in each lane that are a set distance apart. It calculated your speed by securing the time it takes your vehicle to travel the known distance. Sound familiar? CVC 40801 now says they can’t use this evidence to prosecute you. But they did anyway, and now you have grounds to fight it. I didn’t try this angle, but I have a feeling you’ll LOSE if you do. But I want to hear about how it went, so write to me.
I’d love to hear from you. Write to me at aren /at/ thesandersens dotcom with your experiences.
August 31st, 2009 at 5:46 pm
Hi,
I just received my citation in the mail, it is four years after this was first published so tickets are up to $436. I had a question. I plan on going to court to go through with the “Trial+Traffic School method”. What if I AM guilty can I still plead not guilty and just expect to get the fine lowered. If I go to court and they ask me why I pleaded not guilty what to you say? I’m not sure this will work. I’m wondering if you could provide me with any details. The second bullet of “Don’t waste you time” seems to contradict “Trial + Traffic School”.
Thanks for any feed back and thanks for posting this blog its the only thing I’ve been able to find on the subject.
August 31st, 2009 at 9:50 pm
At the very beginning of the trial session I was at, they offered the lower fine and traffic school if you didn’t pursue the case.
September 27th, 2009 at 7:23 pm
I was visiting San Fran from Ohio for the first time and had a rental vehicle for five days. I had just got the car from the Airport and was headed to the hotel when I took a wrong turn in downtown San Fran. In my attempt to get to the hotel I remember going through a yellow light which switched to red as I went through and a “flash” of light appeared. A month after my return home I received a “affidavit processing fee” from Hertz via ATS Processing Services asking for $30.00, I’ve mailed the check and awaiting the “Red Light Violation”. However, I had been told that as long as I was already past the “white line/cross walk” that this should have precludes any violation. Please give me your thoughts. Thank you for your time, Rob
September 27th, 2009 at 9:05 pm
In theory, the cameras will not take a photo unless you crossed the “white line” too late. The photos will probably show that you didn’t make it in time. Hertz is already in receipt of the citation and I would expect you to get your copy soon.
There are some very interesting ways to fight it but none of them are useful if you’re in Ohio. You might just have to pay this one. Let me know what the citation shows when it arrives.
October 7th, 2009 at 1:48 pm
Hi, I recently got a red light ticket and was considering the signage argument from VC 21455.5 that you mentioned above. However, I noticed that you said that you lost at trial with that argument. But I also noticed that you won your appeal, so I curious if you won using that same argument or a different one. You help is appreciated!
October 7th, 2009 at 1:55 pm
Matt: I won at appeal due to a technicality. The lower court didn’t submit the paperwork properly, and the appeals court threw out the case instead of trying it on its merits (or lack thereof).
October 8th, 2009 at 1:40 am
Do you know ahy thing about the 15 day requirement as per CVC 40518? My ticket was mailed after the ‘Respond to the court by date.’ In fact, it was mailed 30 days after the violation date. Any input?
October 8th, 2009 at 10:21 am
Keith –
I have lots of info on that. I fought a ticket on those grounds which was ultimately dismissed for other reasons. I’ll send you some info.
October 14th, 2009 at 11:55 pm
Hi – I recently got a red light ticket, however, the picture on the ticket as well as the picture online is extremely blurry. When I went to the court on my due date I told them that I would like a trial. At the court, the clerk asked me if I was driving the car and I told him that this was my car but that I cannot tell in the picture if that is me or not.
Are there other, better pictures that the police have at their disposal? How should I address this in court?
October 15th, 2009 at 8:17 pm
Hey i received a rolling right ticket. I had no clue this was illegal, i always thought you had to yield, i just follow what i see other drivers do. Anyhow i was wondering if i could fight this because the law states that you have 15 days to mail the ticket certified mail. Well it took 16 days and there was no certified mail, i didnt sign for anything and there was no proof of delivery. Can i fight this, can you email me please?
October 17th, 2009 at 4:37 pm
Hi, thanks for running this blog! I just got a red light ticket but since I changed my address I think I’ve only received one of the Citation reminders. Is there a way to look at the picture(s)/video online? Or do I have to go to court to get that information?
Thanks,
Daniel
October 19th, 2009 at 7:44 pm
I was in SF recently and in the right turn lane and realized that I saw a red light camera flashed infront of me. But I did not make a right turn and I was just happened to cross the white line about half car length. I did not make that right turn until the light turned green. It’s been a week and I have no receive anything yet in the mail because I had a rental car. I am not so sure if i violated the law and I was just crossed the white line just a little bit. Any thought? Thanks a bunch!
October 20th, 2009 at 12:11 am
Oleg: The police have better pictures. You can call the Red Light Enforcement division of the Police Department and ask to see them.
Anthony: I don’t recommend fighting your ticket.
Daniel: Call the courthouse clerk and ask them for the case #. Then call the Red Light Enforcement division and ask to see the photos. It might be too late, though. If you failed to appear at court, then you are guilty and have additional fines to pay.
Jason: Technically you ran the stop light. 1/2 car length is a lot. The camera takes two pictures within 1 second. You have a good chance of being forgiven if the second picture shows that you stayed on your side of the intersection. The tickets take up to 3 weeks to arrive, but will be further delayed because it was a rental car. If you haven’t heard anything in 2 months, you’re probably off of the hook.
October 20th, 2009 at 10:24 pm
Thanks for the info Aren! It wasn’t that far off 1/2 car length. I think it was enough to trigger the line on the ground, so I think my front tires just stepped over it. How did you know the info about the camera takes two pictures within 1 second? And also I have chance to be forgiven? Do you think there’s also video camera recorded? I hope I won’t get it, it was just an accident that I just stepped over a line. Really appreciate your input!
October 24th, 2009 at 6:58 pm
HI Aren thanks for your help to people like me. Today I was in S.F and light was green.I was behind one car that was making left turn and I changed my line to right to pass that car and light suddenly changed to yellow when I was in the middle of intersection and camera took my photo when i was almost done crossing. What can you tell about it? What should I do? Thank you very much again.
October 26th, 2009 at 12:56 pm
Jason: as far as I know, SF does not use video-enabled cameras. Wait 2 weeks. If you get nothing in the mail, then you’re off the hook
AlexM: from your description, it sounds like the cameras were taking pictures of someone behind you. The cameras only monitor the ‘stop’ line. If you enter the intersection on a green or yellow light, the cameras won’t be interested in photographing you since there’s nothing illegal about that. Unless, of course, you get a citation in the mail in 3 weeks.
November 1st, 2009 at 10:30 pm
I received a right on red ticket. It was 2:46 in the morning and I was tired. Would the judge understand that and possibly let me off the hook?
You say that there is an option for traffic school (for which I am eligible) and I only have to pay an $80 fee…is that still the case?
Just looking for advice! Thanks!
November 1st, 2009 at 11:02 pm
The judge definitely will not dismiss the ticket for that reason. You will get a slight reduction in fine amount for showing up in court, though.
I haven’t heard if the $80 option is still being offered.
November 9th, 2009 at 11:44 am
Aren -
thanks for keeping this site running and up-to-date. Lots of good info.
With regard to a San Francisco red light camera ticket:
On your reply of August 29, 2009, you indicate: “At the very beginning of the trial session I was at, they offered the lower fine and traffic school if you didn’t pursue the case.” I assume this relates to an earlier year (2005?).
Has anyone recently (late 2009) tried the “Trial & Traffic School” option with the court clerk on the trial date offering a reduced fine at the start of the court session? Does this still work? What was the “reduced” fine? (Currently fine is at $446 for a VC21453A citation).
Thanks!
November 9th, 2009 at 11:47 am
Has anyone else recently tried the “Trial & Traffic School” method?
Results?
November 12th, 2009 at 1:22 pm
I too just received a red light camera ticket – at Park Presidio and Lake coming out of the tunnel. i understand this is a very popular place for tickets. They got me at .3 seconds. I literally had no time to safely stop between the time the yellow light was actually visible and when it turned red.
Like the above poster, I’d like to get the $446 citation reduced. Do I contest the ticket via mail, then show up for the court date and hope they will offer a reduced fee? I’ll be happy to do online traffic school too. I live in Monterey, and don’t mind showing up once if it means getting $300 knocked off the violation.
November 13th, 2009 at 5:42 am
for some 2009 info on SF traffic court procedures, go to http://www.yelp.com/biz/traffic-court-san-francisco
There is a 3/2/09 post by Alan L that is fairly thorough in describing the traffic court process.
November 17th, 2009 at 10:19 am
Hi Aren,
I was visiting SF and driving a Budget rental car on Sat Oct 17 in bumper-to-bumper traffic near Baker Beach. Normally I wouldn’t enter an intersection when there isn’t room to cross completely. However, in this case it was a very short T-shaped intersection and I was going with the flow of traffic when it came to a stop while I was inside the intersection. The light changed to red while I was in the intersection and I saw the camera flash.
Today I received a $25 Affidavit Processing Fee in the mail from ATS for Budget with a date of Nov 9. I haven’t gotten any sort of violation notice from SF, but I’m assuming that a processing fee means that a ticket has been issued. Is that a correct assumption? If I do get a ticket and fine assessment, I’m not going to fly back to CA to appear in court, but is there any possibility of getting the fine reduced, like attending online traffic school?
Thanks!
Cathy
November 17th, 2009 at 11:15 am
@Cap: Haven’t heard from anyone who has tried the “Trial & Traffic School” method lately.
@Mike: contact the courthouse clerk. Ask how to plead not-guilty via mail (and thereby forgo the arraignment), then show up for trial. They’ll probably make the best Trial + Traffic school offer immediatley before the session starts.
@Cathy: sounds very suspect. The camera’s aren’t designed to trigger in “stuck in the intersection” cases. Wait until you get the citation (assuming you ever do) and if it’s clear you were merely stuck in the intersection then you should do a trial by mail (trial by written declaration). You can’t attend online traffic school unless you’re a CA resident… and it doesn’t give you a discount anyway (it just keeps the points off of your license).
December 6th, 2009 at 2:35 pm
i got a flash this am, i was at 19th ave and sloat, i was rolling as the light was turning from red to green, nver actually going into the intersection, probably rolled to the cross walk, any thoughts whether i will get a ticket
i dont think i entered the intersection but the camera flashed twice
any thoughts?
December 6th, 2009 at 3:50 pm
I doubt you’ll get a ticket from what you described.
December 6th, 2009 at 6:37 pm
Aren,
You seem to be the most knowledgeble on the whole red light camra, on the 26th of november I was making a right hand turn when the light was red, there are no postings of signs that say “no turn on red” anywhere at the intersection. When I turned I did slow down but the camera went off and on the 5th of december I got the ticket in the mail. First of all is it pointless to fight. Second does anyone know what the cost is for the violation. It happend in Stockton, CA the vehicle code is VC21453(a) description : failure to stop at Red Light. Let me know when you get a chance and anyone else for that matter that knows anything . Thank you.
December 9th, 2009 at 2:10 pm
Hi, I was at 19th Ave and Sloat on Thanksgiving night (Nov 26). I rolled into the intersection and stopped due to traffic back up. The light was yellow when I went into the intersection (so I honestly think). But when I was half inside and looked again it was suddenly red. There was a series of blinding white light at that moment. Probably 3-5 flashes, one of which hit me close when I was close to getting out of the intersection. I only realized several minutes later that that must have been a red light camera. I first thought it was a beamer from a construction site, since it was so blindingly bright. There was no car behind me in the intersection waiting to get out, but there are three lanes in one direction, there could have been cars in the other lanes behind me which I don’t remember. Anyway, I hope I won’t get a ticket. Wouldn’t I have noticed the first flash right upon entering the intersection? Which I didn’t notice anything then? How long does it take to get at ticket by mail to the North Bay Area and how long do I have time to respond? I will be out of the country on vacation from Dec 16-Jan2 with my whole family. Nobody will have access to our PO Box. The car is even in my husband’s name, so he would get the ticket in his name. Hopefully not. Thanks so much for your help.
December 9th, 2009 at 2:58 pm
@Arielle — Doesn’t sound like the camera’s flashes were for you. A ticket will arrive within 15-20 days. Don’t worry about it, and if there’s one waiting for you when you get back… then we can figure out what to do.
December 9th, 2009 at 4:20 pm
Hi!
Great site!. Just got a red-light camera ticket. Making a right turn. Looked at the video and I do stop for a half sec. before turning.
I want to fight! I want to post bail and request a speedy trial. Just got my notice almost a month later. Do you think the speedy trial thing would work in my case? Looks like you did something similar… This is in socal
December 14th, 2009 at 7:19 pm
So I saw the light….got the citation in the mail…
However my situation is a little different. The picture is sort of blurry, and it was in a company vehicle. The citation went to the corporate office, who then forwarded it to me. My name is not listed on the citation, but the company’s. Our vehicle leasing department sent the citation to my address, and now what?
As others have asked, is the $80 option for traffic school + trial still available? $446 does not sound good to me…from San Fran’s court website, it doesn’t mention the option, though I doubt they would…any updates would be great!
December 14th, 2009 at 8:00 pm
@Jake: Tickets issued in company names are much easier to get dismissed. Email the editor of highwayrobbery.net for his informational document on the subject.
December 15th, 2009 at 10:37 pm
Aren,
My citation was for going Northbound on Park Presidio where I made a right turn onto Lake St.
I stopped briefly then proceeded to make my right turn. Again, there were no signs posted anywhere that there is no right turn on RED.
The photos show me stopping at 2.0secs in first photo. Then I was half into my turn at 4.1. Technically my car can reach up to 17mph in 1.x secs. Does this sound unreasonable to accuse me of a violation on those grounds?
December 15th, 2009 at 11:36 pm
@Sam: The camera read-out (assuming it’s a gatso camera) will tell you how fast you were going when you crossed the stop line. What does it say?
December 17th, 2009 at 11:49 am
I received a red light violation from an incident November 11 2009 in which it was not my Camry car and I was not the driver. The plate number in the photograph is from old plates turned in from my wife’s Toyata Avalon for personalized license plates in April 20, 2007. The Red Light Camera Clerk did not read down the DMV history profile correctly to ascertain these facts. I have stood in line twice at the Bryant Street San Francisco Traffic Division but no dismisal has been accomplished; instead I found out this morning the commissioner has to review the case and the date for that is Jan 4th, 2010.
Has mistaken identity happened before in your experience?
December 17th, 2009 at 8:14 pm
@Aren: There was a total of 4 photos.
1st – me behind the crosswalk with 2 other cars to my left the same
2nd – shows me halfway into the turn(speed shows 17mph)
3rd – license plate
4th – a blurry pic of my face
December 17th, 2009 at 8:15 pm
The second photo which shows the speed and me halfway into my turn. It shows 17mph.
December 17th, 2009 at 8:29 pm
@Arens: Furthermore… I can say my situation is also a “It’s not me” ticket. Any advice?
December 18th, 2009 at 9:26 pm
Hi Aren,
I reside in So. California. I received a Redflex Red-Light Camera Ticket, making a left hand turn. The first photo registered a RED time of 0.08 while the second photo registered a RED time of 1.48 and Elapsed time of 1.39.
Are you aware of the full brightness or steady light defense mentioned on HighwayRobbery site. Any experience or thoughts on this. My late time of 8/100th of a second would adhere to their claim that my red light was not steady or in full illumination due to it takes at least one full second for the LCD to reach full brightness (steady) upon being triggered.
Thanks.
December 19th, 2009 at 12:10 pm
@Sam: sounds like a tough case. According to the camera equipement you crossed the stop line at 17 miles per hour. The judge won’t believe that you stopped. And as for your “it’s not me” defense — what do you mean? You said above that the photos were of you.
@Adam: I am familiar with that defense. I like the concept and it’s definitely worth a shot given how short your red light time was.
December 19th, 2009 at 2:33 pm
Aren,
Thanks. One more question. Since my ticket is a photo red light ticket are you aware of a defendant’s rights in regards to subpoenas. Our town’s chief of police is the designated “Police Project Manager” in the city’s contract with Redflex. Since I can’t question a camara, I want to subpoena everyone involved with the Photo-Enforcement Project, from the police chief down to the Redflex personel involved in the evidence and processing of my ticket.
December 26th, 2009 at 3:24 pm
hi aren,
well, my ticket just came in the mail.
i remember the moment very clearly: i was heading westbound on harrison street about an hour before sundown — the angle of the sun at that hour put the traffic signal in TOTAL silhouette (it appeared black), plus the effect on my eyes was blinding. both of these factors made it impossible to discern the light color change.
the 1st photo — taken after the red light was on for .04 secs, if i’m reading the data correctly — shows me stopped before the 1st line of the crosswalk (meaning, not in the intersection), waiting for the stopped traffic in front of me to start moving again. you can see the stopped traffic on the other side of the intersection.
not sure if the photo link will work for you:
http://public.cite-web.com/ShowImage.asp?vFile=/PSSSQL_San/Sanfrancisco/Images/dep_136893/L2144E1D12172009154617I179121.JPG%20&vImageLable=Photo%20One%20%28Vehicle%20on%20the%20loops%29&vCitNum=za0258663
as soon as traffic in front of me started to move, i started to drive forward, unable to discern the traffic light color change because of the angle of the sun, & that’s when the photo was taken.
the 2nd photo shows me about 3/4 of the way through the intersection, with the front of my car about 1 foot from the crosswalk line:
http://public.cite-web.com/ShowImage.asp?vFile=/PSSSQL_San/Sanfrancisco/Images/dep_136893/L2144E1D12172009154617I179132.JPG%20&vImageLable=Photo%20Two%20%28Vehicle%20in%20the%20intersection%29&vCitNum=za0258663
my questions:
1) do you feel that my ‘angle of sun’ argument would hold water?
2) do you think a photo of the silhouetted traffic light would help? of course, it won’t be able to capture the blinding effect on my eyes, but i’m hoping it may capture the blackened, silhouetted traffic light. i was planning on going there around the same time of day to see if i could capture if on camera. unfortunately, the angle will have to be a little different since i’ll have to take it from the sidewalk.
3) why was the camera even activated (pic #1) since i’d not even crossed the 1st (outside) line into the crosswalk? it’s my understanding that the camera is only activated once you’ve crossed the 2nd line into the intersection.
ok. hoping you can shed some light on this.
thanx,
michele
December 27th, 2009 at 7:28 pm
@Michele –
1) As difficult as it is to see a stoplight when the sun is behind it, it is almost certain a judge would not dismiss the ticket based on that.
2) Probably not.
3) You’re required to stop before the crosswalk.
Never hurts to try, though, so let me know what happens.
December 28th, 2009 at 10:05 am
thanx, aren.
re: #3
what i’m wondering is why the 1st photo was taken since i HAD stopped before the crosswalk?
thinking this will further prove that i couldn’t see the light color, since i had actually stopped before the crosswalk (pic #1), and then proceeded (even though the light had already been red) when the cars in front of me started moving. does that sound plausible?
was looking around on here & didn’t see a bio. found you elsewhere (if it is indeed you) and you appear to have an engineering background). do you have a legal background, or are you simply someone who’s received a lot of traffic citations?
thanx again.
December 29th, 2009 at 8:54 am
@Michele –
I am not a lawyer and any advice on here should not be construed as legal advice. The advice here is probably worth just about what you’re paying for it.
The problem with the “I stopped” argument is that the camera’s computers (whether correctly or incorrectly) calculated your speed as 19 MPH when you crossed the closest line to the crosswalk. It will be next to impossible to convince the commissioner that you stopped.
December 29th, 2009 at 10:36 am
Hi Aren,
Any thoughts or comments to my last question?
Thanks
December 29th, 2009 at 5:00 pm
@Adam — Oops, didn’t mean to let that slip through the cracks. I don’t know of the subpoena rights for traffic infractions. A quick search shows that you legally have the right, but that the court clerk can deny your request (which, if I had to guess, they will [aside from the ticketing officer, which is automatic]). But try it anyway… there’s a form online (assuming California). You have to pay them $35 + mileage.
January 9th, 2010 at 1:24 pm
I’m curious about the part about another driver using the car. What should the owner of the car expect for not naming the individual, given that their photocopied license is submitted and the drive was another gender, for example. Is this a loop hole in the system? Or will it only lead to more problems. Anyone?
January 10th, 2010 at 2:02 pm
@Rebecca –
You should expect the city to be happy to let you off of the hook, as long as you reveal who the driver was. Instead, you’ll have to go straight to trial (or a trial by written declaration) if you want to have it dismissed straight-away.
January 11th, 2010 at 12:43 am
Aren
Wow lots of information.
Question. How far through the intersection do you have to be to be safe? I was Approx in the middle of the crosswalk just as the light changed from yellow to red. Any thoughts info is appreciated, thanks
January 11th, 2010 at 5:30 pm
@Tim –
The law says the front of your car has to be behind the close side of the crosswalk (the stop line) when the light is red. The middle of the crosswalk is not a violation… unless the cameras are set up wrong or not working properly.
January 12th, 2010 at 4:07 pm
Hi Aren,
In regards to Ca Vehicle Code 21455.5 (b) which requires the local jurisdiction to make a public announcement of the automated traffic enforcement system at least 30 days prior to the commencement of the enforcement program.
Do you have any knowledge or insight what constitutes “public announcement”? Are you aware of any cities which have or have not adhered to this code?
Thanks,
Adam
January 12th, 2010 at 8:13 pm
Aren
Thanks.
January 14th, 2010 at 11:58 pm
@Adam –
Great question. Many cities have only announced the installation of the city’s first camera, via tv, radio, and newspapers. There is debate as to whether that’s sufficient, or each camera needs a warning. If you ask SF for the discovery packet, I believe they will tell you how they chose to comply.
Also check Highwayrobbery.net — it goes much more in-depth.
January 23rd, 2010 at 1:26 pm
hi!, really good web page. so i got a ticket for jumping a red light. the pictures are extremely blurry (it was kind of drizzling), can i choose “affidavit of non-availability”. Is there an extra fine if they rule its me after they checkout my license and recent photograph? Also can you please elaborate on the Trial + Traffic schol option. I am confused on how its different from Plead not guilty option. For Trial + Traffic, when do i go there and see the clerk?
January 23rd, 2010 at 10:03 pm
@Naren — You can try the “affidavit of non-liability,” but if it *is* you then you’re commiting perjury. In theory that could involve jail time if they can prove it. You also have to give up someone else’s name to use it.
For Trial and Traffic school, just go down to the courthouse now and wait in line to talk to the clerk. Plead not-guilty with the clerk, and get a Trial date. At trial, they will probably offer the traffic school option.
January 23rd, 2010 at 11:02 pm
Thanks Aren!
January 26th, 2010 at 5:30 pm
So I went to the clerks office today and told the guy behind the counter that I want a trial date. He told me I have two options.
1. Post the bail and get a trial date.
2. Dont post the bail and go to the court two times. Once for arraignment and second time for trial ..or something like that.
So I took option 1 and posted the bail. He gave me a receipt and a court date.
Did i pick the correct option? What are my next steps?
The citation I got through the mail said I could make an appointment to check out the pictures so I asked the clerk before I was leaving about where I could do that. He told me I can check them online and when i replied that they are not clear, he said its the same pictures they are going to show and I might have a chance of winning because the picture isnt clear. All this took less than 30 minutes, even though the “Smart Parking” garage guy was trying to rip me off 10$ by telling me it was 32 minutes. I almost paid and when I checked the time on the ticket and his machine it was just under 30 minutes. I paid him 5$ for the half hour. What a jerk.
January 26th, 2010 at 9:32 pm
Hi I got a red light ticket in california and was wondering how to go about it. I am going to go to court to see if they can lower my bail amount but was wondering do all courts lower ur bail and give you traffic school if u ask. I think 500 bucks is way to much even though I am guilty. Can u help me need the bail to be reduced and I may need traffic school.
January 27th, 2010 at 6:07 pm
@Naren — Yep, you did the right thing. Your court date is a Trial. Go to trial — BE ON TIME. They will probably offer the whole room of defendents a deal before the judge appears… you have to decide whether you are going to take their deal (probably a very reduced fine if you do traffic school) or forgo that deal and argue the pictures just aren’t clear enough to convict you. Please report back afterwards — would like to know what your experience was.
@Bethany — Every court is different. Most will lower bail for you when you appear before a Judge, though.
January 27th, 2010 at 6:53 pm
Is offering a deal pretty common? I am kind of paranoid because the clerk said i gave my right to traffic school by asking a trial date. i would be more than glad to take a reduced fine. from highwayrobbery.net i learnt that i could ask the judge if he was sure it was me from the pictures without agreeing to testify.
January 27th, 2010 at 6:54 pm
and yeah, i will post back on what i had to ..after the trial.
January 28th, 2010 at 8:47 pm
@Naren — Offering a deal before the trial starts is common. Once you’re at trial, the judge probably won’t let you do traffic school. If you lose, you’ll probably get a lower fine, but that’s it.
You can say the photos aren’t clear, etc., without taking the stand. If anyone asks if it’s you in the photo, you can say that per your 5th amendment right, you’re not going to testify.
January 31st, 2010 at 5:36 pm
Hello,
I just went through red light. I don’t have a front plate. does it take a picture of the back plate? The light changed so fast!
Thanks,
JP
February 1st, 2010 at 10:59 am
@JP: What city/intersection? If San Francisco, then probably not — most of the cameras in SF only take pictures from the front.
February 1st, 2010 at 8:56 pm
I got a camera red light ticket tonight at the intersection of ofarrel and franklin. it was yellow almost red when i was turning and i did see two flashes of light from the camera on the street corner.
if i do get a ticket, can u simplify for me what i need to do? i know uve explained the trial and traffic school option, but can even simplify it a bit more to me? what im getting is that i when i do get my citation or ticket, i go to the clerk and post bail (what does this mean?) and plead not guilty. and then u mentioned getting a time for the trial. will the trial be on the same day u show up to plead not guilty and post bail? AND who or what tells you when to go to the clerk to plead guilty?
im new to this so it’s kinda confusing for me.
thank you for this helpful site.
February 1st, 2010 at 9:42 pm
hi aren
i just read ur exchange with naren and that answered my questions.
a new question, however, is, how sure is it that they will offer a deal before trial starts? cos if they don’t offer a deal and the trial will start, what should one do now if they want the traffic school option?
February 2nd, 2010 at 7:07 pm
Hi Aren,
Do you have any information or insights about getting a traffic violation for making a (legal) right turn on red? The violation code is VC21453A and the description says “Fail to Stop at Red Signal.” The photos show my car at the crosswalk and then making the right turn. The red second says “0.4″
I believe I went into the turn on yellow and the light turned midway. Has anyone experience a similar situation? Also, are they still offering a deal before the trial in SF?
February 2nd, 2010 at 9:26 pm
hi Aren,
I saw a flash while crossing the intersection and I think I got caught by the camera, how long does it take for me to receive the ticket? how much is the fine now?
February 3rd, 2010 at 6:25 pm
@MIKE94118 — I can’t say for sure they still offer the deal; haven’t had anyone confirm it lately. Chances are they still do, though. If trial starts and they didn’t offer it, you can ask the judge for it as soon as your trial starts and hope they honor your request.
@Hal — The camera thinks you went into the intersection .4 seconds after the light turned red. Tough to fight that one.
@Alvin913 — The fine is around $480 I think. The ticket has to arrive within 15 days.
February 4th, 2010 at 1:37 pm
i recently rolled through a stop light making a right turn and they caught me on camera.
my ticket is about $446 and i was wondering the best way to try and get the fine reduced. should i just plead guilty? or try and fight it ?
February 4th, 2010 at 11:20 pm
I was at Doyle drive this morning right where it turns into Lombard and I thought I saw the light turn green and went ahead. Then I saw the camera lights flashing and realized that the green light I saw was for the intersection in front of me not mine which was still Red. The distance between the intersections is so short that it is easy to be mistaken.
I went to work and the first 2 people I spoke to said they’ve both gotten tickets at the same spot for the same reason. I wasn’t in a rush at all this morning and thought I was obeying the law. It just doesn’t feel fair. Do I have any recourse?
February 7th, 2010 at 5:35 pm
hi aren,
thanks for the info, so if the ticekt does not arrive after 15 days, is it safe to say i did not get a ticket? i’ve asked some people and they said they had camera flashes too by geary and 12th avenue/presidio, and they never received a ticket in the mail. so it’s possible that they don’t issue these tickets to everyone depending on what the camera sees?
February 9th, 2010 at 9:42 am
@Kathleen — the best way to get the fine reduced the most is to follow my trial + traffic school suggestiom.
@Lenny — I’d recommend trial + traffic school. Arguing to the judge that the intersection is confusing (while true, from your description) will unlikely cause the dismissal of the ticket. I would suggest you follow up with the city on the safety of that intersection, though — sounds like a death waiting to happen.
@Mike — legally the city has 15 days to deliver the ticket via mail. If you don’t have one after 21 days, I think you’re off the hook. They definitely do not issue all violations — an officer reviews them and if they can’t see the driver well (or other circumstances) they won’t issue the ticket.
February 11th, 2010 at 6:03 pm
My husband just got notification for turning right after the light has turned red in SF. It was a legal right turn, but may have been a “rolling stop”. With pictures it is hard to tell. There are a couple things that I noticed about the citation. Should we fight it (Note- He received a true running red light ticket a few months ago in San Mateo and we already did traffic school for that). The ticket is $446.
1) The picture is fuzzy. I can tell it is him because I know how he sits in the truck.
2) There is no date on the Must respond to the court on or before date.
3) I can not find the intersection of NB Park presidio Blvd (Rt 1) @ Lake St on google maps. I am not sure how to get back there to take a look at the intersection to make sure it did not have a no turn on red sign- Would it say that on the citation?
February 15th, 2010 at 3:12 pm
@Nicole: The intersection is Park Presidio Blvd @ Lake Street. (NB) means he was travelling northbound on Park Presidio. Look at the 2nd image in the picture. It will say V=(some number). What does it say? That’s the speed he was going when the light was red; the city will use that as evidence to argue that he didn’t stop before making a right-hand turn on red. The no “respond to court” date is interesting… look at CVC 40518, it requires that the “time and place when, and where, the person may appear in court” be included on the letter you were sent. If it’s not there, you have reason to ask for dismissal (not that you’ll be granted it, but it’s an interesting strategy).
February 16th, 2010 at 1:45 pm
Aren,
it’s me again. I finally got the red light ticket today. the picture is very fuzzy blurry. (do u the want the code to review the picture online?) I asked around and got different opinions. some told me that i can tell the judge that i wasn’t the driver but since I am the car owner, I still have to pay for the ticket. (if i say i wasn’t the driver, would the judge ask me who was it?) some just told me that I should just go to the traffic school to avoid all the trouble. What should I do man? and my ticket doesn’t have the date for the “respond to court”, what does that mean?
February 18th, 2010 at 12:21 am
@Alvin — first, I don’t recommend lying under oath. You don’t have to testify… if the judge asks you if it was you, who it was, etc., you can maintain your right to not testify. Or you can say you’re not sure that it’s you, if that’s the case. These are moving violations. Only the driver would be responsible for paying. The car owner is not.
I can’t tell you what to do. This blog outlines a lot of your options. If it were me, though, and there really was no ‘respond to court’ date filled out on the form (and they didn’t mention a date elsewhere), I’d just ignore the whole thing (save the ticket, though, you’ll probably need it later). It’s a big gamble though.
February 25th, 2010 at 11:37 pm
Aren:
Infomative site. Thanks. I wonder if your car has no front license plate, does the camera photograph the rear of the car or just front grill and driver?
February 25th, 2010 at 11:40 pm
As far as I know, the cameras in San Francisco only take photos from the front. So without a front plate, you’re not going to get a red light camera ticket. (Though you might get a “parking” ticket for not having one.)
Cameras in other cities nearby take photos and video from both the front and rear.
February 27th, 2010 at 3:33 pm
Hi, Feb 27 Sat around 2 am going home on Van ness and Bush. I completely stop at the red light, but i was looking down at my car’s dashboard green clock and thought the light turn green and hit the gas pedal. I back tracked and realize my mistake and stop in the middle section of van ness/bush for about 10 seconds, realizing what i did wrong. I think i didn’t see any flashes.How long you have to be sweat it out until i might get a ticket? how many days or week?
February 27th, 2010 at 4:05 pm
@hippo: If you don’t get a ticket in the mail after 3 weeks, you’re probably not going to get one.
March 4th, 2010 at 5:44 am
Hi, I was recently in SF and while driving southbound on Van Ness I saw a flash. It was mounted on a pole somewhere between Turk and Hayes. Are they new photo radars or was it something else?
March 4th, 2010 at 8:51 pm
@Bruno — as far as I know, there are no cameras on that stretch. The buses’ connections to the overhead wires sometimes cause sparks which flash brightly, which might explain it unless there’s a new camera installation.
March 10th, 2010 at 10:32 am
Great service you are providing! Lots of info on the Red Light Photo issue info, I hope I don’t have one of those coming. I did receive a “parking violation” for violation VC 22526 A (listed as blocking an intersection) described as refusing to turn. I was in SF 2 weeks ago and a guy in a blue shirt with a sheriff’s star (the kind my children got at county fairs) pointed me to turn right on 6th from Market and my destination required a right turn on 4th, a one way to the right. I was not in a Right Turn Only Lane. I have learned there is a new “Market Street Pilot” making vehicles turn at various places. Any suggestions on this one? Thanks.
March 11th, 2010 at 7:57 am
I got a ticket for a rolling stop while turning right in SSF – Westborough and El Camino. The city has already issued refunds to 7,000 because the city council did not ratify the contract with the camera co. I did not fall in that time frame. There is another argument that the city has to give warnings for 30 days and that would be me. Do you think that is a valid case? Thanks for your input.
March 12th, 2010 at 10:54 am
hi, i have a ticket in january, how many times i have to pay it please, thanks
March 12th, 2010 at 4:52 pm
@Fran — no experience with that one. Is it a parking citation or moving violation?
@Cindy — Yes, it’s a very valid case if the city in fact did not issue warning citations for 30 days.
@Brice — Where was the ticket, and what was it for?
March 12th, 2010 at 5:36 pm
it was a red light ticket in SF, thanks
March 14th, 2010 at 2:59 am
Hi aren,
I was making a left on the chestnut intersection in south city. I stopped behind the line because it was red, but when it turned green, I started going but the cameras flashed. Will I get a ticket ?
March 16th, 2010 at 12:23 am
Brice — the notice they sent you in the mail will have the “must respond by” date on it. Be sure to appear on or before that date.
Kyle — hard to say. Wait 20 days, and see if you have a ticket in the mail. If so, check back here and let’s see what their evidence claims.
March 16th, 2010 at 9:07 am
Hi Aren,
I just got a redlight photo taken on Bush and Van Ness in SF, but I have a nose bra on my car and therefore no visible front plate. Do you know if that camera takes rear plate photos? Do you think I’ll be receiving a ticket in the mail for this?
thanks,
Sandra
March 16th, 2010 at 1:48 pm
@Sandra — I don’t think any cameras in SF take photos of the rear license plate, so you probably won’t get a ticket.
April 16th, 2010 at 6:36 am
Hi Aren,
I was on the Lake and Park presidio intersection going east. I stopped and was waiting for a light to turn green. When the light turned green, i drove into the intersection so that i could make a left turn onto northbound park presidio. I was almost complete with my turn when I saw flashes from behind me. Does this mean i will be getting a ticket?
Nicole
April 18th, 2010 at 11:32 pm
@Nicole — From your description, I don’t believe so. You’ll know for sure in a few weeks!
April 22nd, 2010 at 12:10 pm
Just an update on my Feb 4th post – I never got a ticket in the mail – Proof that God exists.
April 28th, 2010 at 9:07 am
Knowledge is power. I appreciate this information and feel better about the $450+ ticket that will inevitably be in my mailbox in a couple weeks. I was heading west bound on Harrison @ 8th (nasty little intersection) and saw a *flash* while I was blatantly in the intersection after the light turned red. I plan on using the trial + traffic school option. I hope that option is still viable and that it plays out in the way described above. Has anyone has a recent experience? Was the fine really lowered to $50 + $30? Also, what does “posting bail” mean? Do I pay the original fee and then get it lowered later?
April 30th, 2010 at 9:29 pm
“Posting bail” means exactly what you said: you pay your fine in full, then get money back later. I haven’t heard an update from anyone in a while, but I have no reason to think the trial + traffic school deal has changed significantly. Please let me know your experience.
May 3rd, 2010 at 12:43 pm
Hmmm, read somewhere “posting bail” is 10% of the amount due. Is that not the case here? Thanks!
May 4th, 2010 at 1:25 pm
hi. i was driving my employers car. it was around noon and i was northbound on franklin about to cross geary and thought i could clear the yellow but got nailed with two flashes while driving through the middle of the intersection. if a ticket is processed it will go to my boss. what are his options? can he say it wasn’t him driving (which will be obvious from the picture) and get it dismissed? will they require him to reveal who it was in for dismissal? any advice would be great. thanks.
May 5th, 2010 at 5:09 am
@fela: It is legal to enter the intersection on yellow if there’s room for you on the other side. If you did enter on yellow, the flashes were probably for someone behind you.
If not, (i.e. the camera thought you entered on red) then your employer will get the ticket. Though they will try to make it seem otherwise, he does not have to tell them who was driving. It might involve him making a trip to the police station or even going to court, though. It likely won’t get dismissed by mail.
May 5th, 2010 at 5:10 am
@Rincon Hill’er: Posting bail for infractions is the full amount of the ticket.
May 9th, 2010 at 10:26 pm
I know for a fact I got photographed at the Harrison and First intersection. I plan to attend traffic school for the fee reduction. Could you possibly explain how that exactly works when I do receive my ticket in the mail?
May 13th, 2010 at 11:19 am
I got a red light ticket while driving a car registered in my husbands name (so the ticket is actually to him at the moment – we’ll see if he rats me out). The offense took place March 3rd and we just got the ticket the day before mothers day. I drive through this intersection daily. I don’t make a habit of going through red lights and this one came as a total shock. Is there a way to know if there are any other such tickets we haven’t gotten in the mail yet?
May 13th, 2010 at 11:29 am
@Argh — if he goes to court instead of ratting you out, it will be dismissed. Also, depending on the reason why it was delayed getting to you, it might no longer be valid. Keep the envelope with the postmark. And no, there’s no way to know of red light tickets that you haven’t received yet. By law they have to be delivered to you within 15 days.
May 17th, 2010 at 10:35 pm
Hi,
I got red light violation with camera in Union City on April 27, 2010. I just received the pictures 1 week after that..the face was not clear and only half( covered by the visor). The first picture said that Red 0.11 and elapsed time : 00( zero)xz
Picture 2: Red 0.98, elapsed time 0.87. It is a 40 mile/hr street and I was driving 35 miles( per the picture).
Do you mind to explain what are those numbers from the picture?
I am trying to go to court because the fine is $446. Let me know..Thank you
May 18th, 2010 at 9:08 pm
@Jenny — The numbers are saying that you (allegedly) crossed the ‘stop’ line after the light was red for .11 seconds already. The second picture was taken .87 seconds later, when the light had been red for .98 seconds.
If the picture is not clear, I recommend going to court. They will most likely offer you a reduced fine.
May 23rd, 2010 at 6:44 pm
Hi Im from Canada and do not have a front plate on my car. I was in SF and burned a red light and saw the flash. The car is not under my name. What should I expect: will the owner get the ticket, if he does and says its not him thats it? is there a chance i might get nothing since i dont have a ffront plate? thank you in advance for your time
May 24th, 2010 at 12:57 pm
@notagain –
Without a front plate, chances are the owner won’t be mailed a ticket. If he does, assuming the photo doesn’t look like him, he can go to court and get it dismissed.
May 24th, 2010 at 11:19 pm
I ran a red light on May 9, 2010 and I saw the camera flashes go off. It’s now May 25, 2010 and still no ticket and 15 calendar days have passed. Isn’t there some sort of law that states that tickets must be issued within 15 days?
May 24th, 2010 at 11:23 pm
Thank you Aren..
don’t you think 0.11 seconds is really short( below 0.4 seconds)? can I argue that it will be too dangerous to stop ?
the picture of the face has half covered by the visor…
June 3rd, 2010 at 10:14 am
Aren,
I recently got a right on red ticket. But I was only going 10 mph, the video shows no cars in oncoming traffic before nor after my turn, and I am a student…this 436$ ticket is an extreme financial hardship for me…do you think there is any point in fighting the ticket?
June 3rd, 2010 at 10:48 am
ty Aren for your time; since I was pictured and the owner is actually a woman and i live in montreal and the ticket was in san fransisco chances are it wont even get mailed right?
June 3rd, 2010 at 10:56 am
@alana — by your admission you are guilty of not stopping; however that doesn’t mean you have to pay full price. Plead not-guilty with the clerk (which means paying the $436), go to trial, and they will offer you a significant discount if you accept traffic school (assuming your are eligible) and refund the difference.
June 3rd, 2010 at 7:20 pm
I’ve been quite paranoid about traffic violations since getting a speeding ticket more than two years ago. So maybe someone could offer me some thoughts.
Recently, I came to a rolling stop inside the crosswalk going westbound on Howard, at 4th, on a red. I did not pass the crosswalk into the intersection, and I don’t recall the red light camera flashing. (But it was sunny out and I was looking towards my left, and the camera would have been on the right, so I might have missed the flash.) With all the roadwork going on at that intersection, I was concerned about road hazards and missed the stop line on this wide crosswalk.
I suppose I’ll find out whether I got a ticket in a week or two, but any thoughts on whether one will come in the meantime?
June 4th, 2010 at 7:53 pm
Is the city still offering Trial + Traffic School discount for Red Light Camera tickets? Anyone knows?
June 8th, 2010 at 11:03 pm
Haven’t heard for sure lately, but chances are good it’s still around.
June 17th, 2010 at 1:12 pm
My dad received a SF red light camera ticket in the mail. I was driving my dad’s car, and the picture clearly shows that the driver was not him.
I understand that my dad can say that it was not him and does not have to disclose the identity of the actual driver.
What we are unclear on is the process by which we should do so. My ticket says that “if you were not the driver,” my dad must fill out the affadavit of non-liability on the ticket, in the beginning of which my dad must check either “New Owner (vehicle was sold prior to violation date)” or “Identified Driver (driver other than registered owner).” For the latter case, he is asked for the actual driver’s name, driver’s license no., etc.
Can he simply write under actual driver’s name “I have no statement regarding the actual driver”?
The instruction sheet says that if the information on the identified driver is “accurate and complete”, the citation will be dismissed, but if it is not “accurate” (note: they don’t say not complete), the citation will remain in his name until the Court receives the correct information.
Advice?
June 18th, 2010 at 10:04 pm
I had the picture but the face is covered half by the visor? ..and the red light was on for 0.11 second..can I argue that is too fast and dangerous to stop?
June 19th, 2010 at 8:45 am
@Moses:
The city will not make that path easy for you, though it is your/his right. He can certainly try to write “no statement” but they will probably ignore it and continue to prosecute. I say it’s worth a shot, though. Let me know if you try it.
Other options:
1) schedule a time with the police department to see the high-resolution photos they have. When it’s clear to the officer that they have the wrong person, they will badger him to reveal who it is. When he refuses to say and threatens to go to court they will often dismiss the charges.
2) go to the courthouse clerk, plead not-guilty (you’ll pay the ticket amount) and then schedule a trial. Assuming it looks nothing like him, it’ll be dismissed (after a substantial waste of time).
3) (least favorite) let him reveal it’s you. when you go to trial, move for dismissal because the evidence at that point is hearsay — your dad won’t be subpoenaed and his statement could be considered hearsay.
Aren
June 19th, 2010 at 8:47 am
@Jenny: While .11 seconds is tough to measure (and, in fact, gives you lots of defenses [ see highwayrobbery.net ]) I really doubt it will work as an argument since you had a whole yellow light to come to a stop.
If there could be any doubt that it’s you on the other side of the visor, then plead not-guilty and go to court. Don’t lie that it’s you, but don’t admit it either — the evidence has to stand on its own.
June 20th, 2010 at 12:51 pm
Just wondering if anyone without a front plate has experience with accidentally running any of the red lights on 19th ave and also park presidio? did you get a ticket? I have no front plate, and was stuck in heavy traffic and I think I got the flash turning right on red from sloat onto 19th, and the flash again on park presidio…. Just wondering if I should be expecting a ticket or if having no front plate saved me… Thank You in advance..
June 20th, 2010 at 3:56 pm
@Nate — I doubt you’ll get a ticket. No cameras in SF (that I know of) take any photos or video from the rear.
June 28th, 2010 at 10:55 pm
Got a red light violation at Park Presidio and Lake. Ouch, $446 plus a point on my driving record (what’s that going to cost?) I would like to use the trial + traffic school option if possible. I’m a firefighter with a class B commercial license, will this preclude me from traffic school or this option. I hope this option is still viable and that it plays out in the way described above. Have not seen any follow up posting, so I’m wondering if this option has been working as stated. Any feedback and recommendations would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
June 29th, 2010 at 9:32 am
I recently got an automated red light citation on the intersection of Oak and Octavia in San Francisco. When I entered the intersection the light was green and then turned yellow but went immediately to red. I was amazed at how quickly the yellow light changed, it seemed like maybe one second. Is there any info or history of shortened yellows in S.F. or what can be done about it?
July 1st, 2010 at 9:56 am
I know this has been asked a couple of times throughout this thread without response but has anyone done the trial + traffic method lately? If so, is it still an option to have your ticket reduced before the actual trial and if so what was the ticket price?
July 6th, 2010 at 2:14 pm
As of last week, trial+traffic no longer works. No offer is made by the clerk.
You may get the admin fee ($52) for traffic school waived, but you still pay $446 plus whatever traffic school charges.
In fact, if you are able to get the fine reduced at all, take it.
Some moron who had his fine reduced to $140 appealed and tried to get it dismissed. The judge said no dice and told him he had to pay the full $446.
Interesting, the only people who were all convicted were the red light camera folks. That was 4 out of 28 people the day I went. Of the remaining 26, who were there for other violations, 18 were dismissed because the officer did not show, and 6 were convicted as the officer was present.
So bottom line – you get a red light ticket, you are screwed. Have $500 handy, because you will need it.
Imterestingly, if you get a regular ticket, you should go for trial, as there is 66% chance the cop will not show!
Thanks for this site, but the deal is dead now.
The best advice is to remove your front plate, that way they cannot send a ticket. If you get stopped, tell cop it was damaged and get a fix-it ticket.
Good luck…hope you can learn from my mistake of 0.4 seconds.
July 13th, 2010 at 10:09 am
@rick — if you choose to fight the ticket, as part of the trial process you can ask the city for the timing information of the yellow light. if it’s too short (there’s a chart that mandates the minimum yellow light time given the road’s speed limit), the ticket will be dismissed.
July 16th, 2010 at 7:08 pm
Aren,
You provide an excellent site. My red light violation was June 19th. My “Courtesy Warning Notice” was not even postmarked until July 8th (19 days later). Before i saw your site, I called to ask for photos. I was told “they could not access them.” On July 14th they finally mailed some – 25 days after the violation. Am I off the hook because I did not receive the notice within 15 days?
Thanks,
Jim
Jim
July 16th, 2010 at 9:07 pm
@Jim — The notice isn’t valid. Unfortunately you are not off the hook as the city won’t hold the city responsible for the incorrect service. Visit highwayrobbery.net, he’s got good info on the issue. If you fight it, you’ll file a demurrer, claiming the notice wasn’t proper and hence the ticket is invalid. If you want to go that route (it’s far from a sure thing) let me know and I’ll help you through it (my email address is on the bottom of the blog entry). Do you still have the envelope with the postmark?
July 17th, 2010 at 7:35 pm
Hi Aren,
Thanks for maintaining this excellent site and info.
I have got a red light ticket in Fremont, and I went for arraignment and pleaded not guilty and obtained trial date. At the time of incident, I had sever nausea cz of my pregnancy. crossed the stop line 0.5s after the light turned red. I could not estimate the yellow light time duration and had to cross the red light cz of my situation. I have a letter from my doctor stating my condition during the first trimister. I have no idea whether the judge will consider my situation and lower the fine ? Does the judge charge extra fine if he does not consider my reason as the valid one and finds me guilty? Do I have the option of traffic school in the trial?
First of all, Did I take a good decision of going for trial?
Thanks.
July 18th, 2010 at 10:43 am
Hi Aren and others,
I just came back to Germany (I’m German) from San Francisco. Unfortunately I run a redlight somewhere in the Financial district on my way to the Bay Bridge with a rental car.
The camera took two shots. That’S for sure.
Could you please tell me, what I have to expect? Has a foreigner pay the fine? How will that work? I can’t go this Traffic-school solution, because the flight will be to expensive
.
I can not understand, why there is a chance to pay only $ 80 while the fine is over $ 300. Do I have the chance to lower the fine? If yes, could anybody give me an idea how?
Thanks
Ulrich
July 21st, 2010 at 3:29 pm
Hi, I just received a citation under VC21453A in the (bail) amount of $466. In the pictures, the Red Time is shown as 00 (with the smaller digit after that being very blurry, even online.) The citation alleges that this smaller digit is “8″(0.8 sec reaction time) – (they are likely basing that on the second pic being taken at 2.0 seconds and the “time between pics” being recorded as 1.22 seconds.)
Even assuming one agrees that the smaller digit is 0.8, the human reaction time (time to start applying brakes) is an avg of 0.75 per DMV itself (http://www.skytran.net/09Safety/03sfty.htm).
Note that the code language is “A driver facing a steady circular red signal alone…”. A fraction of a second is not a “steady” red signal. Therefore, in light of the DMV reaction time of 0.75 seconds, a 0.8 second Red Time cannot be considered a “steady” red signal.
Do you think this may work? To advance such an argument, what do I need to do?
Second question: in the second pic, my speed is recorded at 31 in a 25 mph zone. Would this potentially increase my fine if I pleaded not quilty OR have they lost the opportunity to charge me with speeding?
Thanks much.
Ed
July 21st, 2010 at 3:31 pm
NOTE: in the previous post, 0.8 seconds is the Red Time and 0.75 secs is the avg reaction time. I mistakenly typed 0.8 sec “reaction time” in one place.
July 22nd, 2010 at 11:29 pm
Hi Aren,
I was driving in Ca and coming to a red light. I hit the break and made a complete stop but the red light camera went of and flashed once. I believe my front tire passed the crosswalk line about one foot. I am so scared that they will send me a ticket. This is my first one ever. Also, I was driving a relative’s car who is going to be out of state for several months. Do you think they will send me a ticket?
July 24th, 2010 at 8:51 am
Hey Aren great site.
I was driving on Franklin late one night and was timing all the lights so that I didn’t have to brake. I came up to Franklin and O’Farrell and as I was approaching the intersection the light was red, but I didn’t slow down knowing that it was going to turn green in just a moment. When the flash went off from the camera I am almost positive that the light had already turned green. Now I’m not even sure if I’ll receive a citation in the mail, but if I do I want to be prepared. I’ve read all the other comments and didn’t see any cases similiar to mine. Any thoughts on the best way to fight a ticket if it does arrive. It was also a very dark night and the flash didn’t seem sufficient enough to produce a quality picture. And I know that the intersection does not have the required warning signs posted, nor is there any warning signs posted going in or out of SF via the Golden Gate Bridge. As far as the other major entrances to the city I’m not sure, but I can’t remember ever seeing any warning signs anywhere in or around SF.
July 24th, 2010 at 12:45 pm
Interesting website. I got stuck with a red light ticket. The ticket, though, is addressed to my maiden name. Any chance this can work in my favor?
July 25th, 2010 at 10:25 am
@Akshya — The judge will not charge you more than the original ticket. I do not think you have a good case and recommend you take whatever plea deal they offer that includes traffic school. Please do not drive if you are so nauseous.
@Ulrich — Don’t worry about it unless you get a letter from the court. I’d say there’s a good chance you won’t since you don’t live in the U.S.
@Ed –It’s a terrible case. You had at least 3 seconds of yellow to react to (unless you think the yellow light was too short), not just the .8 of red light time. No, they won’t add a speeding charge. If that’s your only argument, don’t waste your time with court (you will be found guilty) unless you’re hoping for a plea deal.
@Lid — No, I don’t think they’ll send you a ticket.
@Bryan — I’d expect a citation. The flash is sufficient. The city has tried to post signs at every highway exit; I don’t believe it’s sufficient but the court does. It’s a good argument at trial, but the judge will still find you guilty.
@Michie B — No, that argument won’t work. That’s the name your car is registered under… it’s still you.
July 26th, 2010 at 5:36 am
@Aren: I was driving in South SF, made a stop for a right turn, then rolled forward and stopped again because there were cars turning from the opposite side. I definitely stopped both times, but I can’t remember how long I stopped the first time or if I was completely behind the line, though I’m 99% sure I was and that I did stop. I made my right turn through the intersection. After my right turn, about 50 feet later I was out of the intersection and I was flashed twice by the camera on the cross street which I had turned onto. Would the camera to get me have to be across the intersection from where I entered? I didn’t see it flash, but the one after the right turn did. There was a sign before the intersection that said “Right on red okay after complete stop.” What do you think? Was it even for me, did I confuse the system, or am I going to get a ticket?
July 28th, 2010 at 7:38 pm
I was in S San Francisco this weekend. I made a left turn at westborough going to El Camino. The light flashed but from what I could recall, I didnt see any red light, it was green.
July 29th, 2010 at 10:13 am
I have an odd case. There was construction (19th Ave) and they had blocked both the right and left lanes, so people were merging in from both sides. I was in the middle lane (the only free one). As I approached the light, I made the usual mental calculation regarding how far away I am and if I can make (it was still green). But then a car from the right lane cut into my lane, and I had to touch the brakes to prevent hitting him. In that split second I had slowed down enough so that by the time I entered the crossing (behind the car who cut me off and made it in) the light was red.
Obviously I had the right of way in my own lane… so I had not accounted for the possibility of people cutting in.
First I get cut-off, and the guy who did that goes through but I get a ticket. I know this is probably too complex to win at a trial, but I do feel very bad that in spite of being a pretty good law abiding citizen, I have to now pay and waste time!
Any suggestions will be welcome.
August 1st, 2010 at 9:15 am
@ Aren: Thank you very much. So I need to wait
August 2nd, 2010 at 5:20 pm
Aren,
I slammed on the brakes this morning on 19th and Sloat. I could have stopped before the crosswalk, but the car behind me slammed her brakes and it didn’t look like she could avoid me. I decided to stop on the crosswalk to avoid getting my rear totaled, and I hesitantly looked at the camera across the street. I did not notice a flash go off at all.
My question is, does the flash have to go off for these cameras, or should I be expecting a nice fine in the mailbox?
Thank you
August 3rd, 2010 at 1:12 pm
Thank you Aren, Looks like the red light camera that I was caught does not have the ‘photo enforced’ or any kind of notice in the direction of my travel. Is this going to be a valid point to argue? Is Plea deal still offered?
August 4th, 2010 at 11:10 pm
Hi Aren, I remember my day quite clearly, I was on the way to the SF Acadamey of Sciences 2 weeks ago on July 21st when I noticed a series of flashes on 19th & Sloat @ approximately 8:20 AM while driving in the far right lane. I have had a previous encounter with a red light camera in Newark in which I decided to just pay for, so when I had seen the flash I was worried for the fear of losing more money since I’m a college student money doesn’t really come easy. When I crossed the first limit line the light was still yellow, and as I was in the middle it was still yellow. However, as I was directly below the stoplight/ on top of the 2nd limit the first flash came. I had also noticed right after the 1st flash that there was a Mercedes in the far left lane that had passed the 2nd limit line about 1.5 seconds after I did and thats when the flash from behind came. Correct me if I’m wrong but I also looked up the entire 19th street on google maps in search of “Photo Enforced” signs and none were posted. So, its been 2 weeks as of Wednesday. August 4th what do you think my chances of the ticket being for me is. The thing that makes me think the ticket is for me and not the Mercedes is because the camera looks like it is in a position that only takes photos of the right lane, so I was wondering if that is true or not? And what are the chances that the flashes were for me? By the way thank you so much for keeping up with the website man major props.
-Alex
August 5th, 2010 at 7:23 am
@Graham — those flashes weren’t for you.
@Joe — wait 3 weeks. If still no ticket in the mail, you’ll know for sure.
@Raihan — yes, that is a bad situation. If you get a ticket let us know — the road construction can perhaps be used to your advantage.
@Matt — If you don’t go through the intersection, they usually won’t send you a ticket.
@Akshya — realize that the city does not have to post those signs at every intersection. They can post them at all city entrances instead. You will lose at trial with that argument though, so be prepared to appeal. A commenter above reported the plea deal is no more.
@Alex — those flashes don’t sound like they were for you.
August 5th, 2010 at 10:49 am
Thanks Aren, would you happen to know when the latest a ticket can come in? It’s been two weeks and it’d be nice to know when I can rest at ease.
-Alex
August 5th, 2010 at 10:50 am
Alex — the law says 15 days. But sometimes they come up to 30 days later, and the judges won’t dismiss them for lateness.
August 5th, 2010 at 3:46 pm
Thank you very much.
August 8th, 2010 at 12:46 pm
Hi- So the otherday I was on my motorcycle and the light was green when a large truck pulled in front of me obstructing the light. I slowed a bit and merged over and by the time u could see the signal it was yellow. Since the ground was wet I decided to excelerate instead of braking hard and possibly wiping out on the painted surfaces and the light changed as i hit the intersection and I saw the light flash. If I get this ticket what’s my best bet? I was thinking plead guilty but tell my circumstances in hopes of a lowered fine.
Oh by the way, I read sf city uses only front facing ACS cameras that only take front pics and bikes are safe because of no front plates?!?
Any advice p
August 8th, 2010 at 12:48 pm
Yes, you’re safe — no front plate = no ticket.
August 9th, 2010 at 9:25 pm
hey aren, the other day i ran a yellow light and it turn red and i think i saw the flash. the car is not under my name and i have no insurance. what should i expect? the owner of the car is my friend and i don’t know what to expect. what should i do?
August 12th, 2010 at 4:51 am
forgot to mention it was in Sacramento on florin road but forgot the cross street.
August 12th, 2010 at 5:11 am
Around 11pm yesterday I was coming home from my sisters house and I am always careful of my speed and stopping in time of the light and so on my way to drop my brother in law and his son home and as I believe I was around 200 feet away from the light it was still green and as I looked down a few seconds to make sure I didn’t go over speed limit and as soon as I looked up I don’t know how long the light have turned yellow so I had to quickly brake and as soon as I stopped on time while the light have turn red for couple seconds the camera took my picture (with my brother in law and his son in the car). It was a hard brake and I did not make it to the intersection nor was there any crosswalk line. So I’m wondering if I’m going to get a ticket for it? After reading some of the people’s comment I’m afraid they might think I ran the light because of my last minute brake. Also the car is under my sisters name and my mom and the address is under my sisters’ name. If they was to received the mail, what is the best way to handle this, even if it was a blurry or clear picture?
August 12th, 2010 at 11:49 am
On May 25, 2010 the Superior Court of California , County of Orange Appellate Division published the results of case 30-2009-00304893 trial count case number: SA12876PE
Basically the appeals court through out a lower courts conviction based on the fact that “the photographs contain hearsay evidence concerning the matters depicted in the photograph including the date, time and other information.” It went on to explain that there were no witnesses to testify about any of the technology, records, etc. and that the only person testifying (local police officer) was lacking specific knowledge regarding the technology. The appeals court also address exceptons to hearsay and official records.
I’m not a lawyer, but my question is – Given this rulling by an appeals court of california I would think that this case is ground for supporting a dismissal argument of a red light infraction.
What are your thoughts
August 12th, 2010 at 3:46 pm
Hi Aren,
Thanks for the Reply. I have obtained the trial date which is in May’11. If there is a fair chance of Judge finding me guilty, there is no point in going to trial. Kind of newbee Question, Can I go to the court before the trial date and withdraw the trial, and pay the fine with traffic school option? Or should I have to wait till the trial day? I am not sure whether the Judge allows me to take up the Traffic school at the trial. Unable to decide anything! – Thanks
August 18th, 2010 at 10:38 am
i drove my brothers car to sf and i ran a light not on purpose. they sent him a letter to apper in a month. the letter had pix of me and not him. will he get a ticket and will they look for the driver?
August 23rd, 2010 at 12:03 pm
Aren,
Great blog. Anyone that has gotten one of these instantly feels like they’re being stabbed in the heart by the gov’t. I received a “courtesy warning” notice” and it says I owe the $466. I checked online and it comes up. My citation date was 7/21 and my due date is 8/25. I was reading the rules on:
http://www.sfsuperiorcourt.org/index.aspx?page=186
and it says “The citation will state when and where the violation occurred. It will include a photo of the vehicle in the intersection, a close-up of the driver and the vehicle’s license plate.”
My citation does not say where it happened or have any pictures. I would think this is a huge point of contention, or is there another citation sent out that usually includes photos and the specifics?
Thanks.
August 24th, 2010 at 8:50 am
@sam: if your friend gets the ticket, he/she can go to court and say it’s not him/her. They do not have to tell the court who is in the photo. Note that when you are borrowing a friend’s car, oftentimes you are covered under their insurance.
@MSX: I don’t think you’ll be getting a ticket. They rarely issue tickets when you didn’t go through the intersection.
@Dave: I’m aware of that appeal and I think it’s long overdue. However, depending on where you live, that case does not set a precedent since it was in Superior Court. Definitely try the same argument in your town, though, and it doesn’t hurt to bring up that judge’s ruling even though it is not binding.
@Akshya: you should be able to go to the clerk at any time to change your plea.
@John: Does the picture look like him? If not, your brother should go to court and testify that he was not driving. He does not have to give up who was driving, despite what the police will say.
@Aric: Something is missing. They have to send you photos of the infraction. It might have just been lost in the mail — call the issuing police department and ask to come in to see the evidence since you never got it in the mail.
August 24th, 2010 at 10:09 am
Has anyone on this website or anyone else you know received a ticket in the mail from the REAR license plate only..meaning I did not have a front plate but did see 2 flashes but I was only making aleft onto chestnut from el camino real on the green arrow but the flashes still went off…when I reached the intersection…Just curious. Thanks
Mike
August 24th, 2010 at 12:13 pm
Thank you very much Aren for all the advice and clarifications.
August 27th, 2010 at 4:06 pm
Oh Gosh. Feelin pretty stressed here. I went through the intersection at Geary and Franklin this morning and saw the flashes and I was the only one crossing. The light turned yellow, but I could swear that my front end had crossed the first line while it was still yellow. Who know…I guess I will find out soon. If my front bumper did in fact make it past the first line, will I still get a ticket? Do they just shoot tickets all day, and then go back and review them all and pick and choose who ever they think that they can prove ran the red beyond a reasonable doubt? Thanks in advance.
Rob
August 30th, 2010 at 11:53 pm
Wow, this is a great resource!
A couple of days ago, while driving my mom’s car, I think i ran a red light at park presidio and fulton. The light was yellow, and i was only going about 20-30mph towards golden gate park. The light changed to red just as i crossed the first crosswalk, so i didnt have anytime to stop. I didn’t see any flashes in front of me, but im not sure about behind me. Do you think i will get a ticket? And what is the best way to handle this situation? Thanks!
September 1st, 2010 at 12:30 pm
Seems I’m not the only one who was caught at Park Presidio and Lake. I was turning right and caught on camera. Does the .9 mean the light was red for that long when I passed the white line? How do they prove I didn’t stop before I went ahead and turned right?
I know in the court system in San mateo one can appear on or before their due date and go before the judge, not a trial, and probably get a reduced fine even pleading guilty. When I called SF court the person said there isn’t the same method in SF. Is that true or can I go to the court and expect a similar thing? Is the only way to even hope to get a lower fine and/or dismissed to request and appear in trial? I think I stopped before turning but not sure…should I plead not guilty? Or…my court date is quite soon…Sept. 15.
Any specific information would be appreciated.
Thank you.
Donna
September 3rd, 2010 at 1:33 pm
@Mike — depends on the city, some of them have video cameras behind.
@Rob — they do pick and choose. Wait a few weeks, see if you get one.
@Annie — if you didn’t see flashes, you might be ok. wait a few weeks and see if one comes in the mail.
@Donna — .9 means the camera thinks the light was red for almost a second before you crossed the ‘stop’ line. To prove that you didn’t stop first, they will present the speed at which you were traveling (it’s on the ticket, prefixed with V=). The only way to get a lower fine is to go to court — they used to give discounts but I’m hearing they don’t offer them anymore.
September 3rd, 2010 at 2:48 pm
Hi Aren,
I have been checking with the SF Superior Court Traffic Division for the last week and will continue to do so for the next week or two. I don’t have any citations under my drivers license yet, but the message says that the issuing agency has up to 90 days to forward the citation to the court. I’m kind of confused about the 15 day thing that you and others have mentioned here. Will you please clarify this for me? Thanks again. Your information is a big help.
Rob
September 5th, 2010 at 3:25 pm
Aren, thank you for this wonderful site.
I recently went to California and the rental car company told me I was captured by camera for a right turn at red light.
the first photo showed that my car is just behind the cross-line. the speed is recorded to be 10mph
the second photo showed that 0.4 seconds later, my car is at the same place behind the cross line (but the photo has a different angle). the speed is still 10mph
The third photos showed that 3 seconds later, my car is turning right.
My question is, first, even in California, one can still make a legal right turn with red light. I had a full 3 second in between.
second, since I am not flying back to California just for this. Does that mean I have no choice but to admit guilt?
third, will that increase my insurance? I live in Texas.
Thank you so much.
September 9th, 2010 at 10:21 am
Hi Aren,
I got a $466 red light violation citation at Van Ness and 14th street. I was behind the white lines after 0.5 seconds the lights turned red. After reading all the posts here and somewhere, I am motivated to take my chances in contesting it. But I am worried about only one thing, by contesting my ticket does it mean that I won’t be able to attend traffic school? Or the traffic school option is at Judge’s discretion?
BTW, thanks a lot for replying to all the questions here. It’s a great resource.
-Rajesh
September 11th, 2010 at 8:11 pm
Hi Aren,
Tonight while driving I did not realize that I was in the left turning lane and ended up running a red arrow but changed lanes to the right and continued straight. Do you know if I will get a ticket? Is the camera set at a fixed angle or does it takes shots of multiple lanes? Any comments is greatly appreciated.
Thanks
September 12th, 2010 at 5:40 am
Just got a ticket Sept 10, 2010. $466 + $52 admin fee for traffic school + traffic school cost. Yikes. Has anyone tried to get the fee reduced recently?
September 14th, 2010 at 3:24 pm
Hi !
I’ve got a ticket for making rolling left turn on red from Franklin to Geary in San Francisco( they are both one-way) . It’s 466$ and 52$ for traffic school. Violation happened Aug 29.
Couple of questions
AB 909 . I understand it passed voting few days ago and goes to “Ahh-nold” for signature, so when it signed to law the fines hopefylly will be reduced. Would it catch in my case ? I need to post bail before Sep 28 2010.
80$ fine + school. I am eligible for school and if this 80$ deal is true I would take it immediately. The problem is it sounds to good to be true. Does it really work or it’s an urban myth ?
September 23rd, 2010 at 10:17 am
Hello Aren,
Last Saturday of September 18, around 8, 8:30 pm, I was driving in California off of N Grand Ave and E Badillo St. in Covina Ca, trying to catch the 10 FWY, but I had stopped to late on the red light and seen flashes, BUT did not go on, I had stopped fully and didn’t move was NOT in the intersection @ all. Would there be a possibility of me getting a ticket, I also have no license plate in front? New car haven’t had time to put it on.
Please advise. Thank you very much. – Vanessa
October 6th, 2010 at 5:26 pm
Hi,
I hired an attorney last year to help me fight my red-light camera ticket here in SF. I just found out that the Judge ruled against me. My attorney says I might have a chance by appealing- I’m wondering if you know about this or if people have had luck by doing this. My attorney (who’s from LA but handles cases all over CA) says that the judges here in the City are the toughest.
October 7th, 2010 at 9:14 pm
Hi Aren, what a useful site! Thanks.
I was going back to Marin, north on Franklin, at Geary at 8:30pm, loud fire engine sirens couldn’t see where, everybody sped up trying to pull over. I went through a yellow/ then maybe red intersection, two flashes. In the next block I finally saw the fire engine roaring behind me on Franklin, turned off to the right a few blocks later. I wouldn’t have run the light without that huge siren. Called the SF FD as soon as I got home, ($400 ticket, oh no!) and they said they could find a record of the fire engine on Franklin at 8:30pm “if they had to”. What’s the prognosis for me? There’s probably no Fire Engine in the red light picture, but I can probably prove it was on the street at the time, going my way. And, again, thanks for the site, it’s awesome.
October 13th, 2010 at 11:35 am
Hi Aren-
I was issued a red light vilolation ticket by a cop who pulled me over in downtown SF in the SOMA area. Basically a big truck in front of me was blocking the yellow from my view and I was following it close and ended up running the red light. A cop happened to be sitting at a light right there and pulled me over. Do you reccomend that I just go to Bryant Street, post bail, plead not-guilty, ask for trial and hope the cop doesn’t show up? Or something else.
Thanks so much. You rock.
-Mike
October 13th, 2010 at 11:24 pm
@Rob — The law says they have 15 days to mail it to you. They don’t always follow this law, but that’s what it says.
@Jessie — You can do a trial by written declaration, where you write in to the court. Almost zero chance of it working, in my opinion. Insurance companies are usually forgiving about a single outstanding traffic ticket.
@Rajesh — It’s at the judge’s discretion. If I had to guess, I’d say once you contest the judge will not grant traffic school. I don’t understand your description, but if the camera says you were .5 seconds late, you better have a very compelling defense.
@Vel — Not sure. Did you see flashes? Well, it’s been over 15 days, so you’ll know by now if you got a ticket.
@Rob — Recent reports say the court is not issuing discounts.
@Vl — Arnold vetoed AB 909. The $80 deal is no more, according to reports.
@Vanessa — unlikely that you’ll get a ticket for that.
@Val — I appealed and won. It’s probably not worth it, especially if you’re using a lawyer.
@George — decent case, especially if you get your hands on the record of the fire truck being on the street. Did you get a violation in the mail?
@Mike — They got you the old fashioned way… so rare. Either pay it or take your chances the officer doesn’t show. Personally I’d go for traffic school, if eligible.
October 18th, 2010 at 3:50 am
Hi Aren:
I received a “Courtesy Warning Notice” about camera red light violation 21 days after it occur (the notice date was 18 days after the occurance). How should go about fighting this one (by the 15 day limit Vehicle Code)? Thanks
October 18th, 2010 at 5:24 am
They also have not sent me any photos or telling me where this happens – looks like the same thing as Aric at Aug 23, 2010 on your blog. Wonder what happened to Aric’s situation. What the reasons are for sending photos to some and not others. And not even telling us the location of the occurance
October 18th, 2010 at 5:36 pm
Hi Aren,
Just received my ticket today for running a red light ($466) in Millbrae (San Mateo County). I went through the intersection thinking that I could make the yellow light, but ended up not being able to do so. The red light cameras got me.
I am guilty, but are their any ways I could go about lowering my fine? Any suggestions? I’m a bit tight on money at the moment.
Thanks for your help!
Emily
October 20th, 2010 at 11:11 pm
Has anybody gone to trial and challenged the foundation – whether the city followed the proper steps in installing camera, signs, sending warning tickets etc.
What was your experience?
November 1st, 2010 at 10:39 pm
Hello Aren & everyone else!
Does anyone know if San Francisco STILL only takes pictures from the front?? & I’m not sure but I think I was almost at the end of the intersection & i saw two flashes. :c I really hope I don’t get a ticket. I didn’t even see if there was anyone else crossing because I got so scared. I’ve never gotten any kind of ticket so I have no idea of what could happen if I do get one.
Also, it seems like if you don’t have a front license plate (ive read every single post in this website!) you’re off the hook! Can we get a ticket for not having it? If not, I’m going to take it off right now. :]
Thank you!
November 1st, 2010 at 11:06 pm
Hi Aren,
Just got a red light flash on me at 15th and mission. It was the game where the giants won the world series night. Lots of traffic. I wasnt paying attention looking at the oncoming cars. I realized too late it was red and just rolled through it slowly while it flashed. You mentioned a cop looks at the pictures and decides if he considers it to be a violation. What do you think the chances are that it will get dismissed? Also…I am in a bad time right now for a 466 dollar fine. How long before you have to pay it?
November 2nd, 2010 at 10:51 pm
Hello Aren,
I just drove home in San Francisco and took a new route for me – Oak to Octavia and then turn right on Octavia for the freeway. It was 10pm and I was stopped on the red light. There was road construction in the right lane. Anyway there are 2 right turns there one to the highway and an immediate right onto a small street. I looked for ‘no turn on right’ signs and could not see any and after several seconds there was no one coming from the left and I turned very slowly into the closest right – the small street. When I realized that I should have taken the other right turn for the highway – I went round the block.
When I returned to the same intersection I made the right turn for the highway correctly on green. However, at that point I saw a ‘no right turn’ sign in between the traffic lights on a bar that extends across the intersection. I was wondering why I had not seen that sign sooner when I stopped, looked for such a sign and when there was no traffic from the left lanes I made my right turn onto the small street to my immediate right… so I went round the block to check it out again.
Then I saw that the ‘no right turn’ sign is tightly mounted between two traffic lights and that when they were red the blare of the light burns out much of the sign – so now I am bummed and probably will get a ticket. I was thinking of going back and taking a photo.
What to you think I should do? it sounds like the trial and traffic court is not an option for discount tickets any more – I appreciate any advice. Thank you.
November 4th, 2010 at 11:10 pm
Hi
I was driving up van ness at bush, stuck behind another slow moving vehicle that slowed through an intersection, then sped. I went into the intersection (specifically the front of the car passed the entering side crosswalk) while the light was orange. It then turned red while I was in the intersection and as I moved through the intersection there were two flashes.
As the same time i was having trouble shifting gears (cuz of car in front of me and slowing down), hence my not getting out of there faster.
Anyways.. am I gonna get a ticket? And if i do, will I be able to argue about entering on orange or is it clear cut to them when they review the files. And can I do the appealing through the mail?
Thanks so much!
November 7th, 2010 at 1:46 pm
Dear Aren,
The same thing happened to me as for Emily(posted on Oct 18th). I crossed the Millbrae/El Camino intersection thinking that I could beat the yellow. The Cameras got me. I crossed the limit line 0.5 seconds after the red. I received a citation for $466 + $57 for traffic school. I have no story. I was in a hurry and I thought that I made it through the first limit line so I continued through the intersection. This is my first citation in my 10 years of driving. And out of nervousness, I paid my bail already. After reading your site, it seems like judges can grant a fine reduction? Is that something that I can still try to fight for even though I paid the bail already? My appearance date is at the end of November. Should I still try to appear before then and talk with the judge? Do they grant fee reductions for first time violators who plead guilty? And if a fee reduction is granted, can I still attend traffic school?
Any help would be appreciated. Thank you!
November 7th, 2010 at 4:32 pm
@megan — if you want to fight on the 15-day notice grounds, please email me. It’s complicated.
@emily — go to your arraignment and ask for reduced bail. the judges often grant it.
@RJ — it’s a tough case, but it can work.
@Einahpets — yep, still only from the front in SF.
@jet — did you see any flashes of light?
@linda — if you were already in the intersection on yellow, then the flashes were not for you.
@starbud — go to arraignment and ask for a bail reduction. they will likely grant you one.
November 8th, 2010 at 11:24 am
Can you please send me info on dismissing a red light ticket for not complying with the 15-day requirement of 40518? The ticket was issued 2 months after the date of violation. I went to court for the arraignment and asked to demurrer but was denied and now trial is set for next week. Thanks!
November 8th, 2010 at 7:10 pm
All attempts of humor aside Aren what do you suggest I do?
November 10th, 2010 at 3:52 pm
All:
Just an update on ticket reduction if you go to court. The bailiff did make the offer. $292 bail + $52 admin fee. Total $346. I’m not sure that it’s worth all of the time spent for $120 but if you need to save a few $ it still works.
November 15th, 2010 at 3:20 pm
i think i might be getting one of these tickets. I was visiting SF and on the last day driving down van ness to get to 101, didnt see the light (not used to where they are in SF) and went thru it… anyways, my plates are not from CA will I still get a ticket sent to me?
November 15th, 2010 at 4:53 pm
Thanks for your help Aren!
November 16th, 2010 at 2:35 pm
Aren,
I’m in the process of researching red light violations in San Mateo (Hillsdale and Norfolk). I first ran into this blog (good info, and thanks for the responses). I then read this site: http://www.highwayrobbery.net
HighwayRoberry.net has some extensive information on the subject! Looks like they’ve put a LOT of time into this. I’m going to look at “Defect #4″ in particular, as I’m not convinced about the postings of PHOTO ENFORCED signs at this intersection (coming in from the highway).
Finally, I read this guy’s story: http://www.hexabus.com/blog/?p=30
which is pretty much exactly what’s going on in the case I’m looking at.
So I’m curious, are you familiar with the “Snitch/Phishing” notices described in HigwayRobbery.net? I guess there is a chance that if the face is too blurry a follow up “real” notice may NOT be sent, but I’m not counting on that.
I figure in the end the reduced fine will be the best route. But in Herman’s case, he does say that the REAL notice showed up a couple of weeks after the SNITCH notice, which would put it past the 15 days… depending on that and the PHOTO ENFORCED signs there may be some hope.
Thanks again,
RC
November 16th, 2010 at 3:07 pm
Hi Aren,
I received one of these red light tickets in the mail for a car registered in my name. I was not the one driving the car at the time. I know I can tell them that I was not the one driving and I also don’t have to reveal who the driver was. Do they usually go back and check tickets in their data base to find out who the driver is? Or do they just dismiss the case and forget about it? I don’t want to get the person who was driving in trouble.
November 16th, 2010 at 8:10 pm
Hi Aren,
Thanks in advance for your help with this. I was coming home from work this evening and took the the 5th street exit of 80 west (coming off the bay bridge). I was late entering the intersection when making a left onto Harrison from 5th. I think there is a camera at this intersection, but is it a four way camera? Any info on whether this camera takes pictures from coming from a specific direction? Again, I appreciate any helpful info.
November 16th, 2010 at 8:19 pm
One more question Aren,
Is community service an option to get significant reduction in the fine assessed for a stop light violation?
November 19th, 2010 at 11:03 am
Got a ticket for a taking a right on red light without stopping.
Saw the video and it shows i didnot stop but there were cars coming from the other side and no one crossing. Teh fine is $486 which is really steep.
Is there any way to get the fine reduced? I have read about the trail and traffic school. Does it still apply now in Nov 2010 in CA?
How should one proceed. Do i go to the clerk and say i want a trail and or
just ask them if they can reduce the fine?
TIA
November 20th, 2010 at 12:38 am
Aren,
Was just googling this subject and ran across this page. I was just out driving (about midnight here now) and I came to a stop inside the crosswalk in the right turn lane of an intersection that was marked “photo enforced” but not marked “no right turn on red.” I realize it may be technically a violation since I violated the crosswalk, but is the system set up to get me for this? I only saw the one flash. I was going pretty fast when I crossed the line but I did stop completely before crossing the second line by breaking hard (not because of the camera…just because I do that sometimes when I’m out alone) and didn’t even end up making the turn until green since the flash tipped me off that the intersection was mad at me
I am in southern california, not San Francisco like you. Does it sound like I will get a ticket? Is it possible they take pictures a fraction of a second apart to guage your speed and will argue that it’s unlikely I would break that hard? I’m pretty sure I only saw one flash, or at least only 1 that was perceptable to humans (maybe they take multiple ones above the flicker thresshold to calculate your speed?)
If I do get a ticket, is it possible to get it reduced or dismissed if I plead guilty and say (truthfully) that I thought the 2nd line was the legal one? I didn’t realize the crosswalk was off limits until googling it tonight.
Thanks
November 20th, 2010 at 10:53 am
Aren, signal light was out, flashing red in all directions and I didnt come to a exact full stop and got flashed but it seemed late into my turn, Can I expect a tic even if the signal light was malfuctioning? I parked and watched this happen to others and saw others roll through and get nothing.
November 27th, 2010 at 11:54 am
@Jonathan — email the guy who runs HighwayRobbery.net and ask for the info on demurring.
@Jackie — yes, there’s a good chance you’ll still get one. Let me know, would be good info.
@RC — Yep, HighwayRobbery.net is awesome. Amazing source of info nation-wide on this topic. My little blog only focuses on SF. As far as I know, SF does not send snitch notices.
@John — they will put a little bit of work into finding the driver (like checking other drivers in the same household). Other than that, they’re going to try to get you to rat them out.
@Ross — don’t know about that particular camera, sorry. And I don’t believe community service is still an option.
@Anonymous — Go to court. They will lower the fine in exchange for a guilty plea.
@David — one flash usually means you’re OK.
November 28th, 2010 at 8:05 am
@Al: $346 is a deal – you did good; congratulations. They usually wont reduce it that much
@Ross: there IS some type of community service. There is some sort of non-profit where you can work for $x/HR to pay off your ticket in SF. I cannot recall the name, but you should ask about it. I know it exists because the guy in front of me requested it and the judge said yes, and gave him details on how to sign up.
December 1st, 2010 at 7:33 pm
Hi Aren,
I posted my question on Nov 2 about a right on red light at Octavia. You asked if I saw flashes – all the lights were so bright across the road that I didn’t notice…however, it’s now 12/1/10 and so far no citation
Thanks for being there – this site helped me get ready for a huge ticket – lots of great info.
Jet
December 4th, 2010 at 11:09 pm
thanks aren for keeping up this blog!!
it’s great to be able to connect with other people who are experiencing the financial terrorism of the SF govt’s ticketing programs. i also got a redlight camera ticket, and felt that sickening feeling from seeing the $466 fine. then plus $52 more please! i am SO tired of the tyranny of the DPT and now the SFPD giving as many tickets as possible to get some cash for the city. it’s cruel and unusual punishment! RRRR!!!! my ticket time was for 0.3 secs. i was distracted for a second, i didn’t see when the light turned yellow, i was close to the intersection, so i speeded up a bit, (yup, i realize this wasn’t the best insta-decision) and then i realized that i was on the edge of going through the red light. but 0.3 seconds? $518? i’m fighting it.
SO. thought i’d just give a bit of info here from my experience and obsessive research!
one great resource is a book from Nolo Press (nolo.com):
“Fight Your Ticket & Win in California”
they’ve got a copy at the SF Public Library: read it and be empowered people!!
also, i just went to court for my arraignment. they presented me with a packet of “evidence” to look at. it included the camera photos and a mailing certification for the ticket, as well as maintenance logs for the camera showing that they serviced it a few days before and a few days after my ticket, and two letters from the camera company employees stating how the camera works and their personal qualifications for maintaining the cameras. the female judge (Dept B) offered everyone with camera tickets a reduction for pleading guilty or no contest. i think it was like $292 + $52, as Al says above….so $344 total. traffic school was an option with that route. (and in general, she was really nice to everyone.)
i asked for a continuance on my arraignment, which i received till end of january, so i could review the evidence packet and do some more research. so far, i have found that many cities using cameras have a “grace period” of between 0.3-0.5 seconds for which they do not issue tickets. possibly this is also because the cameras are not so exact at 0.2 secs or less. i’m looking into how exact the camera companies believe their cameras are. and i’m going to talk with my one lawyer friend to try to understand whether i could make a case. apparently san diego makes an extra $2,000,000 just off tickets like mine with very short times:
http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/20/2049.asp
well, thanks for listening and thanks again for keeping this up, aren!
peace
December 9th, 2010 at 11:31 pm
I just purchased a used vehicle and the car was not yet registered to my name. The dealer said he would do it 2 weeks later. I went to San Francisco and I THINK I encountered a flash while making a right turn without stopping. Its been over 30 days. Will I recieve a ticket? Thank you for your time!
December 9th, 2010 at 11:43 pm
ALSO! The car is registered under my dad, is it possible that he just says it wasnt him??
December 15th, 2010 at 7:00 pm
So I got a red light ticket at 16th and bryant. No camera. I almost wish there was so it show the whole situation. My two front tires were in the intersection on the green. The car in front of me took along time to make a left. I wasin motion on the yellow, but the light changed to red very quickly. I don’t think my back tires cleared the crosswalk before the red, however, my front end was in the intersection and i was afraid i would get hit by cross traffic if i didn’t go. There was a cop directly behind me. I knew he was there, I went because light was still yellow and i was already sticking out on the green. He write me up. I am curious if there is information about how fast the lights change and where to get it? If there are laws about the length of time the light must be yellow before it turns red?
Gina
December 20th, 2010 at 10:31 pm
Hello Aren, I’m from Los Angeles and I recently got a red light camera ticket in a friend’s car. unfortunately he told the court my address and they have sent me the ticket. after opening up the ticket I realized that the name wasn’t my legal name and my drivers license # wasn’t there along with a wrong birthday but correct in year.
December 23rd, 2010 at 9:58 pm
Hi Aren. I was driving my Dad’s car when I was being caught by the red light camera. My dad is dead before the incident happened. So who’s name is gonna appear on ticket? If it is his name what should we do? The car is currently registered on him. Thank you
January 1st, 2011 at 8:46 pm
Dear Aren,I went through a camera light at olympic and soto in La,cameras front and rear,Flash pics were taken daytime,however my vehicle has no front and no rear plate,only temporary pink operating permit in passenger side window with a very small id number. Will I recieve a ticket?
January 8th, 2011 at 7:26 am
A reminder to all – the best way to avoid this is remove the front plate.
Don’t cover it, as this looks sneaky. Just crunch it up a slighty, throw it in trunk, and if the cops stop you, just claim it got damaged and fell off and you have to replace it. The avg cop is more lenient than the judge.
No more red-light tickets.
You’ll notice that bicycles don’t trigger the red light cameras,
so if the city wants the revenue, they should enforce that equally.
Until it is equal enforcement, my plate stays in the front.
January 18th, 2011 at 5:47 pm
Hi Aren,
This is a great site/idea. I was in a zipcar on Dec 29th turning right from EB HICKEY BLVD@EL CAMINO REAL when the light turned green and the car in front of me drove forward with me following. Even though it showed green I saw the two flashes of light and just received a ticket through zipcar saying I would get an official ticket in a month. After reading highwayrobbery.net I learned how to read the photo and it shows me as 47.3 seconds into a red light?!. I am 1000 percent positive it was green when me and the car in front of me turned and yet the camera went off anyway. Can I fight the accuracy of the camera? If so how? or am I going to be fighting a battle I can’t win?
January 25th, 2011 at 10:28 pm
recieved ticket in the mail. I was turning right on bush from van ness when flashes went off. light was still green when i made a turn. when i zoom at the photos there was a car on my left side which i think was the one triggered the camera. do i have a chance to fight this?
January 27th, 2011 at 2:00 am
@Maria — see what happens if/when a ticket is sent to you. No sense stressing about it now.
@Jack — visit highwayrobbery.net and read up on hearsay evidence when it comes to this evidence.
@Justin — the ticket will appear is his name. It will be dismissed once the DMV learns of his passing.
@Tony — no.
@Jack — that intersection has video footage. Does it show the light was green?
@Jenn — Yes you do have a chance. Please scan a copy of the ticket and email it to me. I’ll take a look.
February 4th, 2011 at 9:34 am
Any options for out of staters who may get a red light ticket? I had a rental car from Hertz and got notification that my information was passed on to the county in San Francisco. We called to be proactive but did not get to talk to the person in charge, but the person on the phone let us know that we could expect a ticket in upwards of $470. If I do get a ticket in the mail do you know of any options for someone who lives on the east coast to reduce the fine?
Thanks,
A.
February 7th, 2011 at 2:34 pm
Hi Aren,
Thanks for all the good info. I am from Canada driving a rental car on Dec 23, 2010 and making a left turn on El Camino/Millbrae when I was blinded by two bright flashes. At the time I suspected the light came from a red light camera and sure enough several weeks later I got a letter from the rental car company informing me I was the driver of a traffic violation, and that they had forwarded my driver information to the city of Millbrae. Then I got a notice last week, issued on 1/24/2011 saying I must respond to the court on or before 2/28/2011
Being from out of town it would be too expensive for me to go to court in person. However, from reading your blog I did notice a few things that make me wonder if I should contest the violation by written declaration. Any advice you can give will be much appreciated:
1.It was pitch dark and there was no way to see a red light camera sign being posted;
2.I never got a courtesy warning letter (or was it the notice from the rental car company?). In addition, I am supposed to receive a separate courtesy notice with bail information and instructions within 21 days (not clear if the reference is to the notice date or the court date). As of February 9, I still haven’t received the notice.
3.There were four pictures taken: driver, rear plate, plus the two violations. I also went online and checked the video. My speed was 15 mph and the elapsed time between the two violation photos was Rtime 000.2 and 002.0, which I assume is 1.8 secs. Can the short time lapse be used as defence?
4.It was clear from the first photo that the car was behind the line when the light turned red. However, being from out of town and not familiar with the area I also hesitated when going up to the intersection, hence slow in crossing the line.
Thanks again Aren.
Andrew
February 8th, 2011 at 5:01 pm
I just got back from court where my case was dismissed because the officer was a no-show !! YAY. I had a $476 ticket from a traffic camera on Mission and 7th in SF. Check is due back in 4-6 weeks!!
This website was most helpful….Thanks.
February 12th, 2011 at 3:35 am
First, I just want to say that this is a great blog!
The suggestion for removing your front plate is a bad idea. Last year, I was issued a ticket for no front plate while my car was parked in front of my home, in a nice SF neighborhood, at 4am! I complained about it to a neighbor who had recently gone to traffic school where they were advised that PD are going to be cracking down and looking for vehicles with no front plates. Fortunately, it was a $10 fix-it ticket ($100 otherwise). Unfortunately, I ended up having to spend $60 for the license plate bracket from Toyota in order to put on a front plate, $10 for the tamper-proof bolts so it wasn’t stolen again, & $10 for the fix-it fee. Major hassle!
On KGO radio they discussed A LEGAL STRATEGY FOR BEATING A RED LIGHT CAMERA TICKET. I don’t know if this was mentioned here~ I think it’s a very recent development that a California Appealet Court published their decision for the first time, finding that the evidence collected by cameras is hearsay and the exceptions to the hearsay rule do not apply. There have been a handful of people who have challenged their violations and won in California~ but the decisions were not published until recently~ one from Santa Ana & another from Menlo Park which, apparently, set a precedent.
After the brief discussion on the radio, out of curiosity, I googled “red light camera evidence hearsay” and found more specific information. It might not be anything to get excited about but knowing about it can’t hurt!
February 28th, 2011 at 1:03 pm
Hello-
I got a ticket for supposedly running the light on 5th & Mission. The 2nd car in front of me stopped & caused us to gridlock. I was in the intersection when the light turned yellow, then red. The camera flashed twice, one for me & the other for the car in front of me. Will this be a valid reason to fight the ticket? Thanks.
March 3rd, 2011 at 2:15 pm
I Got the letter fromcourt for Failure to Stop at red light under VC21453(a). But i was not driving my car. Photo is not mine but car is mine.What should i do?
March 7th, 2011 at 3:56 pm
I got a left turn red light violation. I was in 40 mph speeed at mowry , fremont blvd intersection. The car which went infornt of me literally stopped (Slowed down suddenly) in the middle of intersection , So I reduce my speed but i was 25 mph so i canot stop complete completely so it turned red before I crossed the line.
Now they charge 480 , this is my first ticket. So tell me hwich is the best way to reduce teh ticket fine.
mail me to . ilaya123@gmail.com
March 17th, 2011 at 6:44 am
Got a red light violation notice in the mail this week E/B Millbrae and Rollins while we were visiting SF from Nevada.
Two things about the notice,
1. The picture of the person driving is not complete since the visor and the windshield mounted GPS covers part of the face making it only about half visible.
2. the RTime entering the intersection shows 000.1, I remember entering the intersection while the traffic light was still yellow……but still 000.1 …
Looking for some feedback on this since I am out of state can I fight this by trial by written declaration?
Thanks
April 6th, 2011 at 2:47 pm
Hi Aren,
A vehicle registered in mine and my husband’s names got caught on a Red Light Camera in SF. I shall not say who might have been driving it. Clearly the photo will not show me or my husband, any advice?
April 6th, 2011 at 3:24 pm
I would send back the affidavit of non-liability. Where it asks for the driver’s name, I’d write “decline to state”. See what happens. Worst-case, you go to trial and when it’s obvious it’s not you, the case will be dismissed.
April 11th, 2011 at 5:14 pm
Hi Aren,
Need your advice. I recently got a ticket for red violations at sf. It was my fault and the photos clearly show that. But it happened by-mistake as I was looking at the GPS. The fine is $480 + traffic school(otherwise points on the license!), which is very high for me.
I can attend the school and Is there any way I can get my ticket lowered?
I got a little confused reading your article. Can I do “Trial + not guilty” and get away with $80 in total? But won’t they ask me why did you plea “not-guilty”, and all the other questions?
Thank you.
Kartik
April 12th, 2011 at 5:41 pm
Hi Aren,
I am confused about the SF process in general. My husband received a notice in the mail that he had violated code V22526A, blocking intersection. We just received another notice that our failure to pay has made us delinquent, and the fee is higher. The thing that is confusing to me is that we never received an original ticket. There was no ticket from a traffic cop, and there was no traffic camera photo of my husband in his car at the intersection they say he was blocking. There is no original document at all, just a notice in the mail that he had violated this code section, and pay this fine by this date, etc. There is supposed to be an original document, right?
Thanks,
Judy
April 23rd, 2011 at 7:58 am
Hi Aren,
Just received a Courtesy Warning Notice for running a red light. I haven’t received the actual ticket. How can I request a copy of the actual photo? I imagine that wouldn’t be a good excuse to contest the ticket, but I really don’t want to pay the $480 + $52 fine.
Can I also argue that there are no signs in the area where I think I got the ticket that says there are photo enforcements?
Thanks!
May 2nd, 2011 at 11:18 pm
Hello! Thank you for maintaining this informative site.
I just received a notice to appear for a red light infraction along with a notice of bail from the city of South San Francisco. (I know you are located in San Francisco, not South City, but I’m rather desperate for help here.)
My infraction involved turning right on red (split-seconds after the light had turned from yellow to red) at an intersection without stopping. This is my first and only traffic violation.
I’m also curious about the Trial + Traffic School option. I seriously cannot afford the $480 fine plus the $57 traffic school processing fee, and then there are the additional traffic school fees to worry about on top of that.
I expect that appearing in court may reduce my fine significantly, but I worry that I may also lose the option of traffic school if I do choose to appear (resulting in higher insurance costs), and I am unsure of how to plea. What do you recommend?
Thank you again for the information!
May 2nd, 2011 at 11:33 pm
@Kinoko — Go to your arraignment. They will likely offer a lower fine there if you agree to do traffic school. In San Francisco you can save around $150 just by going to arraignment and/or trial.
May 5th, 2011 at 10:45 pm
I too got a violation for a rolling right hand turn at the infamous Rollins Road in Milbrae. Just like Kinoko, I got my $480 fine plus the $57 traffic school processing fee. I thought about fighting it since I couldn’t pull up my video on the Violationinfo.com site, but based on what I’ve been reading here Aren, I think you’re going to recommend me to go to arraignment and take the lower fine with traffic school.
What about pleading not-guilty and then showing up to trial to receive the best reduced fine + traffic school option?
This is also my first violation as well in my 11 year driving history. The funny part is that my first speeding ticket was in Canada and I was 25 mph over the limit. The fine then was only $350 vs. the crazy $480.
May 8th, 2011 at 10:54 pm
Hey Aren I really want to thank you for this very informative info you give. Ok so I got a picture taken making a right turn at Soto and Olympic in the city of Los Angeles going down Soto and turning in to Olympic. I slowed down enough to kinda have stopped but not 100% sure but as soon as I started making that right the light turn green as I got the picture taken. But the funny thing is that that same day as I was making a left turn from Olympic on to Soto me being the first car and the light just had turn green to make a left the camera took a picture when I was making that legal left turn. Do you think I can use that against them maybe being that the cameras are defective?
May 11th, 2011 at 9:41 am
Hi Aren,
Thank you, you were right, I did NOT receive a ticket.
Thanks!
May 11th, 2011 at 6:46 pm
I just got back from my Hearing in SF for a red light ticket I received back in December. I wanted to report my experience today so it might help others reading this blog. In my case, traveling at 28 mph on Van Ness toward the Pier at 7:00p, as I crossed Bush, bang, two flashes startled me. I never saw a yellow light much less a red light and I was paying attention. I think I was watching the back of a truck as we, a clump of cars, moved down the blvd. The pictures that turned up show the signal was Red .5 sec when I was at the cross walk lines. On the day I went back to SF to book a hearing date (I live in Sacramento), I returned to the signal that got me and made a video of the light timing the yellow, and, it was 3 sec. I thought it was short but after reading everything I could, it was in spec for 25 mph, however stupid and dangerous that might be. Anyway, I decided after lots of research to call and pay over the phone with my CC. The girl that answered was really nice and insisted I show up for my hearing and it would be “worth my while”…. so, I did. That was today. Once in the actual room “A”, the group of us listened to a short “pay attention and don’t be a problem” talk from an officer he said he had all the specific details for ea of us to look at for our Red Light ticket and passed out packets with pictures. It was easy to see they had their act together, all of the spec data was there, along with signed calibration records so you can see it would be hard to prove the camera was out of spec, they’ve been down all of those roads before. After the short speech we were told the options we had, one of which was, “traffic school”, which is, not admitting guilt but accepting a reduced fine and going to traffic school. I took it. All other options involved a long process that would end up being expensive and the outcome almost certainly would be guilty, at least in my case. And Traffic School was off the table at that point, unless the judge specifically allows it. The fine was reduced from $476 to $294, + driving school $52. And, I don’t have to pay it until August, the date that I must complete driving school by. So, that was it. The entire time in the room was about 20 mins., we waited for about 20 mins outside the room before hand. I still think it’s more about revenue than safety with a 3 sec yellow….but given the budget problems in Calif currently, I’m glad I got at least some reduction. Hope this is helpful to a few of you.
May 24th, 2011 at 2:57 am
Hello,
I was driving down from Oak Street to turn right to Octavia to enter the freeway today at 3:00am. On may way down (I was driving under 25mph) I saw a sign that says do not turn on the red right. And the signal light I saw was green up arrow and there were no other signals in RED. Since it was a GREEN LIGHT, I turned right and the moment I turned, I saw a small flash twice. I came home and checked GOOGLE street map whether there was any other signal light other than the ones that I saw, and there was. But, I am bit confused whether it is illegal that I turned right from the Oak street when there was no lights on the signal. (NONE it was dark black) From reading this blog, I have a feeling that I am going to receive a citation ticket (and not qualified for t.s), and if I do, should I go to court and talk about this whole situation? since there was no other RED LIGHTS from the traffic signal.
Thank you,
May 26th, 2011 at 10:38 am
To Aren and all RLC violators: If anyone can tell me if the back of their “Notice of Traffic Violation” which they received in the mail has this (or similar) sentence:
“If you choose to appear in court you must first view the video of this violation at http://www.photonotice.com”
I would greatly appreciate knowing about it. So far, I have seen Fremont, Newark, and Hayward have included this sentence in the first paragraph of the “What To Do” section. This may be grounds to contest any citation.
The “Notice of Traffic Violation” I speak of is the ticket which includes the 4 color photos of the infraction.
email: rlouisj@aol.com
June 3rd, 2011 at 2:19 pm
I just went through Howard and 9th and got a single flash from the lower left flash (there are two, side-by-side). The light was green. i was not speeding either. Even when I was through the intersection I checked in my rear-view mirror and it was still green! I’ve gotten one of these tickets before so I’m VERY careful. Why do the cameras flash on a green light?
June 9th, 2011 at 9:21 am
I got two camera flashes last night in front of me,I did jump the light,my own fault,it was behind the Bill Graham auditorim in San Fran,cant remember cross streets.But my point is,Ive no licence plate on the front on my Vehicle,and the camera seemed to be only in front,so how will they send me a ticket?
June 9th, 2011 at 10:46 am
Camera malfunction. If it generated a “camera activation” event, it should be forwarded to the Red Light Camera officer in SF, who would not issue a ticket. However, he would see the evidence of the malfunction. Why not call him or her. It would be especially helpful if you could give him the date, time, and vehicle license plate so he could talk to you specifically about the camera activation.
June 12th, 2011 at 1:00 pm
how long does it take to get a red lite camera ticket in the mail if u was driving a big rig in sf and belmont if ur not the registered owner,,my boss did say who the driver was but i havent heard nothong from it
June 12th, 2011 at 2:48 pm
Why did your boss say who the driver was? He received (most likely) a “snitch” ticket in the mail (black and white photos instead of color). He could have disregarded it. If he received a real ticket he could have just presented the ticket to the judge at arraignment, “it’s not me.” Anyway, I would expect you would receive a ticket in your name in about 2 weeks after your boss finked you out. It should be pretty easy to be it, however. Your boss’s statement which the cop may try to introduce as evidence at trial is hearsay. Best to let this cite know if and when you get a ticket. Good advice is available. email: rlouisj@aol.com
June 13th, 2011 at 3:08 pm
Thanks to all for this info.
I ride a motorcycle, and today approaching the Bush/Van Ness intersection, the light turned yellow, I checked my mirror and there was a truck too close behind me, I had to go through. Do you think this will be a worthwhile defense. I haven’t had a ticket in over 20 years. Lastly, what was the total cost with the $294 + 52 + traffic school? As with many, I’m unemployed (in fact I just left an interview).
Thanks
June 13th, 2011 at 3:11 pm
@Carl — you aren’t going to get a ticket. 1) the cameras in SF only photograph the front. There is no motorcycle license plate in front. 2) you were (presumably) wearing a helmet which would make positive photo ID very tough in most cases.
June 14th, 2011 at 10:12 am
Great blog, thanks for the resource. I moved a while back but notified DMV of the move. I got the red light ticket but the notice went to my old address anyway. By the time the notice got to me it was too late. I’ve missed the deadline by almost a week. Is there anything I can do at this point?
June 14th, 2011 at 10:30 pm
Glen: You may have a “failure to appear” which is dealt with separately. I suggest you prepare your defense to this and go to the traffic window ready to submit your evidence. When did you notify DMV of address change? How did you inform them? Show the court you are here almost immediately after finding out about the ticket. (you would not have been late if ticket was issued by an officer). While at the window, either schedule an arraignment date or a trial date. To skip the arraignment, however, you might have to post bail amount. At arraignment, I would suggest asking the judge to dismiss based on lack of ID (blurry photo). If no luck, plea Not Guilty and get a trial date. The further into the future, the better, most likely. Some traffic courts are booked for the next 12 months. Use the time to prepare your defense or save your money. You must read Defect #5 on website: highwayrobbery.net
June 15th, 2011 at 7:53 pm
i was driving a friends car went half way through on a red then backed up after realizing it was red whats gonna happen there?
June 20th, 2011 at 8:09 pm
Patrick – If the camera was activated and the police see enough evidence to issue a citation it will be mailed to the registered owner. It must be received in 15 days, I believe. Most times tickets come in the mail in about one week. Contact your friend. Ask him to not do anything without contacting you. If a fake ticket arrives at your friend’s mailbox, it can be disregarded. If it is a real ticket your friend should easily be able to beat it. Make sure your friend does not fink you out by filling out the back “nominating” you as the driver.
rlouisj@aol.com
June 21st, 2011 at 4:01 am
Hi Aren & others,
I’m from Malaysia. I’ve a business trip traveled to Fremont on Oct 2007 and I had got a red light ticket from Newark Police Department forwarded by the Car Agent to my company. I sign off everything and return the email to my counter part in US. after few months, i ask my US counter part about this violation as i did not receive any letter or email from Police Department. He said if I need to take further action, I would have heard more by that time. But until today, year 2011, I yet receive any from them.
What should i do now? did anything happen to me if I travel to Fremont again? and What should i do if I need to travel to Fremont again? Pls. kindly advice.
June 21st, 2011 at 9:31 pm
! Please help !
Got a red light camera ticket in San Francisco. It is me but in a company vehicle.
So sfpd sent the ticket to my employer and they passed it on to me.
My name & license are not on the ticket. It’s just the lic. plate of the company vehicle and my picture.
I mostly do not want a point on my license. Can I just send them a check with the citation # on it and make this go away with out giving them a license # to attach a point to on dmv record ? Will that work ? Or will they demand from my employer a driverse license number for the citation ?
I can’t find a way to email highwayrobbery.net there is no option to ask them about this.
June 21st, 2011 at 10:47 pm
Chey How – Do you have a copy of the red light camera ticket? Is it in your name? What is the citation no.? Did you have a California Driver’s License? rlouisj@aol.com
June 24th, 2011 at 3:15 am
Hi Roger,
Sorry for my late reply
I still have the scan copy of the red light camera ticket with me. The violation # is N010179B. I don’t have California Driver’s License.
June 24th, 2011 at 5:34 am
Chee How – Call Newark Police at 510-578-4237 and Fremont Court at 510-818-7502. Get as much info as possible. Fines due, civil assessments for being late, etc. Is ticket in your name. Ask them. If you are in the states and are driving, you could be risking a lot if you are stopped by police.
June 24th, 2011 at 6:40 am
thank you & will do.
June 25th, 2011 at 4:52 pm
Please help!
I got a red light camera ticket recently in Fremont.
It was a right turn roll over. And the left turn from the other road is
green arrow protected. So in principle, I am sure there will be no danger.
And I checked the speed, it is about 10 miles per hour.
I did not make a full stop.
But I feel very sad if I have to pay almost $500.
Any advice? I want to go to the court.
Not sure what the result would be.
BTW, I never had traffic ticket before.
Thanks!
June 25th, 2011 at 9:22 pm
Tony: I know Fremont. It would help to know at which of 3 intersections in Fremont you were cited. Also, what is the “late time” Look at the data bar at top of photo #1. Date of violation was when? You can email me. If you plead Not Guilty your trial date will be 12 months from now. The law could change by then. The Supreme Court issued a ruling last week which may impact how camera cases are prosecuted. If you are willing to do 40 hours of community service if found guilty, there are some do’s and don’ts you should know about, also.
rlouisj@aol.com
Roger
June 25th, 2011 at 9:37 pm
Intersections in Fremont which cite right turners are:
Stevenson & Blacow
Mission & Mohave – yellow light extended in Nov. 2010; cites lefts also
Automall & Fremont
Other “high value” cameras in Fremont are:
Mowry and Fremont (cites lefts, too)
Mowry & Farwell
Paseo Padre & Decoto
In Newark, virtually all (over90%) of tickets are for right turns:
Mowry W/B turning right onto Cedar
Cedar Blvd (N/B) turning right onto Mowry (#1 camera)
Newark Blvd S/B turning right onto Jarvis (#2 camera)
July 1st, 2011 at 12:58 am
Help!
I have court tomorrow am in SF for running a red light @ 1st & Folsom.
I never got any pictures or info on where (which intersection) it occurred at.
Also, the notice was sent to my old address (1 apartment away). I went to the clerk’s office yesterday & asked for & received the black & white 4 photos which are blurry.
Can I claim the evidence is untrustworthy or unreliable due to SF’s revenue-generating contract with camera co? Can I claim violation of due process bc lack of notice or real color photos? Can I claim unconstitutional enforcement due to motorcycles & cars lacking front plates that also run red lights are being treated disproportionately as these ppl don’t get tickets & therefore are not applying the law equally? Any info on the evidence/hearsay/other recent rulings????
Thanks!!
July 2nd, 2011 at 10:14 pm
Hello!
At East of Millbrae Ave., I was the 2nd car waiting to make a left turn into Rollins Rd. (Heading to In & Out Burgers). When the lights turned green (For Left Turns and vehicles going straight the intersection) I was almost out of the intersection going into Rollins Rd., the cameras started flashing from many corners.
Are the cameras malfunctioning?
July 3rd, 2011 at 9:12 am
@ sean…where you able to fight this using the facts that you stated…and are you sure that the cameras don’t take pictures from behind in san francisco? I just got flashed while crossing the intersection I believe on fremont street to get onto the the bay bridge. The time I crossed into it the light was yellow but turned red half way through. I also don’t have a front plate because it came off last week in the car wash. So I’m not even sure if I will even be getting the ticket. Any input would help..thanks!
July 3rd, 2011 at 9:14 am
If anyone else has some current info about the rear facing cameras on that street…please let me know. I would check my self but I was visiting from sacramento
July 5th, 2011 at 6:25 am
@Sean. Sean said he plead Not Guilty and goes to trial in Sept. He has not seen photos. I suggest going to the police station to see any photos and video. Try to get a copy in advance of trial. If nothing else, determine whether you were driving and if photo is clear enough to prosecute (reasonable doubt).
@Sammiegrl – Aren and others say SF photographs the front plate. I certainly wouldn’t worry until you get a ticket in the mail.
July 5th, 2011 at 5:03 pm
hey guys. okay so I was preceeding through a light and right when i crossed the first line in the cross walk it turned yellow so I started to proceed and then when i was on the opposite side of the cross walk where i was basically out i looked up and saw it turn red. There was no flash of lights. Will I get a ticket?
July 5th, 2011 at 5:06 pm
Basically I was out of the light and when i looked up when i was basically out it was yellow and then red. no flashes at all.
July 7th, 2011 at 4:36 pm
I just received a red light violation dated 11/7/2010 , the post mark on the envelope is July 1st 2011. That is nearly 9 months… Please tell me there is a limit on the amount of time from violation to receiving the ticket.. thanks!
July 8th, 2011 at 5:22 pm
Nick, It sounds like the original ticket went to owner of vehicle and the owner ‘snitched’ you out. Need more detail.
July 9th, 2011 at 11:23 am
Nick – Editor of website highwayrobbery.net says ticket can be reissued in your name if done within one year. You should read Defect #8 on his website. You may be able to demur to the citation.
http://www.highwayrobbery.net/indexExpanded.htm#Def8
July 9th, 2011 at 9:57 pm
Hey its been 24 days since I saw the flashes and I still haven’t received anything. Do u think I’m off the hook?
July 10th, 2011 at 7:48 pm
Danny – Ticket must be mailed to registered owner in Calif within 11 days. Were you the registered owner?
July 16th, 2011 at 4:38 pm
Need help with a red light camera ticket issued in Fremont CA? How about at Automall Pkwy (Parkway) and Fremont Blvd.??? In early 2010 red light camera activations went way down. WAY…WAY…DOWN. To as few as 30 in one month. Then suddenly, they went back up to 600 and 700 in one month’s time. Since then the activations have resumed their normal pace at around 330 per month. So what happened during that 3 or 4 month period? No one knows. The Fremont Police Dept does not. Nor does Redflex apparently since there is no communication between the two concerning the matter. The officer who issues the citations has not noticed any aberrations. No one has ever notified him of any maintenance issues or any issues regarding calibration or performance. Sounds to me a defendant could “make a lot of hay” when asking the cop some questions about how reliable the camera data is. Let me know if you need to know more.
rlouisj@aol.com
July 16th, 2011 at 10:26 pm
Hello!
I was driving in downtown San Francisco recently, I just got a used car and ran a red light on Mission and 5th intersection at about 1 pm , I have no front plate and rear plate but a little temporary license sticker on the passenger side of windshield, Is it possible that the red light camera can see that much detail on that license? It has been 16 days since it happened, when can I start breath a little bit easier? I appreciate any help from anybody!!
July 18th, 2011 at 10:07 am
Richard. Breathe easy. Camera cannot read VIN no. on temp. sticker.
July 18th, 2011 at 4:15 pm
Thanks Roger!
But there is a 8 digit number on my temporary sticker which is readable I guess… what is that number? is that the temporary license number?
July 19th, 2011 at 5:35 pm
Richard – I don’t know
July 19th, 2011 at 11:02 pm
Hello
I got a ticket from Los Angeles County. They tried to cancel the red camera enforcement program until July 31st. I got a ticket on May 24th but I must pay it before July 25th. Is it possible to waive my ticket after July 31st ?
July 22nd, 2011 at 8:20 pm
Hi, I ran a red light last month in San Fransisco Click” I heard the camera and yes I recieved a ticket in the mail, though the tickek was issued to my 17 year old son. The truck is regestered to me though we have the same name. I sugested he fill out this is not section of the ticket and not name the driver in the blurred picture. Will they reissue the ticket? maybe it will go away? at the Highwayrobberey.net site it mentions this maybe grounds for dismissal. Any imput, thanks for all the help. Ron
July 23rd, 2011 at 12:02 pm
I thinkg i saw the flash while i was driving at SF downtown on 7/14/2011… how long you think the ticket will arrive? is there any way to reduce the fee? I got a red light violation ticket in augest 2009. am i still eligible for the traffic school?
July 25th, 2011 at 2:46 pm
Ron G: It seems obvious that if you or your son mail back the ticket and say it is not me….the police will look up other registered drivers at the address and just reissue the ticket. Better to go to Arraignment and ask the judge to dismiss based on the fact the photo in the camera does not resemble the person to whom the ticket was issued. Judge should dismiss. This will not allow the police an opportunity to reissue the ticket in the driver’s name.
July 25th, 2011 at 2:48 pm
Meow: Traffic school is available if there has been an 18 month period between citations for which traffic school has been completed. Camera tickets need to be mailed in eleven days; received in 15 days since date of violation, or thereabouts. Relax for now. The ticket may be mailed to registered owner. Is that you?
July 26th, 2011 at 4:53 am
I have a question, Since when does the camera flash on a yellow light?
I was coming to a stop light wanting to make a right turn on a green light.
But, no sooner as I got closer the green light turned to yellow. I stopped but apparently not well enough. When I did fully stop I was a bit over the line. I backed up, no cars were behind me. The light was “YELLOW”. The camera flashed twice? Any infor or advice?
July 27th, 2011 at 3:51 pm
Please see Los Angeles article from 07-27-2011 at this link, :
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-0727-red-light-cameras-20110727,0,83963,full.story
Don’t suppose there is some implication for the SF red light program..?
July 27th, 2011 at 4:23 pm
Hi – I received a ticket as well, it says red light enforcement program. It does not give any details on where it happened and has no picture. Does this mean they didn’t really get a good picture. It does give the option to send them a copy of my dl and the person who was driving the car. What’s the best way to deal with this, please help. $480 ticket, I don’t even remember being flashed!! No idea where this might have happened.
July 27th, 2011 at 4:28 pm
By the way with regards to my previous post, what I received is a courtesy warning notice, should I be expecting something in addition to this?
July 27th, 2011 at 8:59 pm
Hi there! I got a red light violation at Hayes and Polk in SF. The Speed Limit was 25 and I was doing 27 because I hate driving in SF and I always try to be very careful. The light was green, I turned my head to check what street I was crossing and then proceeded forward at 27 mph. The Yellow time was 3.4 and Red Time was 0.3. I was 12 feet behind the line when the light turned red, which did not even give me time to react before the deed was done (assuming a reaction time of .75 seconds). Does any of this matter for the courts or do they consider all red times to be created equal? It seems really unfair to have to pay $480 +$50 for the right to take traffic school plus traffic school for such a thin margin. If I had been going 30 MPH, I wouldn’t have gotten a ticket! What would you suggest I do? Pay up and lick my wounds or try for a trial by written declaration? Thanks!!
July 30th, 2011 at 4:44 pm
Mona G. You did not say whether you received a ticket or not. If you did not received a ticket – don’t worry. If the car is registered to someone else, have them contact you if he or she received a ticket. They don’t need to snitch you out. Seek advice on what to do.
July 30th, 2011 at 4:46 pm
Nitin: It is hard to say what is going on. Contact either editor of highwayrobbery.net and fax him a copy of ticket. Or fax to me…
rlouisj@aol.com. Sounds like a fake ticket
July 30th, 2011 at 6:24 pm
Lisa: If picture is clearly you – you may be going down for the full count. Many say the picture is clearly them because they know it IS them. You may be the worst judge of the matter, however. If there is no defense to ID (beyond reasonable doubt), it could boil down to how the particular court deals with marginal infractions like .3 seconds late. I don’t know about SF courts. It may not hurt to plea Not Guilty and use the extra time before the court date to either save up to pay the fine or do further research. You can always change your plea and pay the fine without going back to court.
July 31st, 2011 at 1:13 pm
Roger – Thanks for the reply.
I called the SF court and it seems it is a legit ticket, though I haven’t received the actual ticket even now. In the courtesy notice they have given me until 8/10/2011 to pay up, but they haven’t sent me a ticket or the pictures. How am I supposed to know if it’s really me!? I am going out the country 8/5/2011, so I would have to figure this out by then, they are basically forcing you to go to the court house, trying to make it so inconvenient that you will have no other option but to pay.
If I go to the courthouse and check the pictures, if it does not look like me (though they got my numbers right), what are my options?
Thanks!
July 31st, 2011 at 6:07 pm
Hi- I was going home to the Peninsula after lunch with my daughter. We were on the intersection of Oak and Octavia. I was eastbound on Oak in the middle lane to go straight. Cars on my right are making right turns for the freeway entrance. We all had the red lights. Then “right only” arrow turned green for the cars making the right turn. I also thought I had the green light, so I moved forward. Then I realized the northbound cars from Octavia had the green arrow to make left turn to Oak and I actually had a red light. I suddenly stopped in the middle of the intersection. After 2 sec, about 3 camera flashes fired off. After the camera flashes stopped, I safely made a right turn to Octavia towards the freeway. Was that a moving violation, eventhough I technically I didn’t run a red light nor overspeed at an intersection? I’m worried because I really cannot afford the expensive fine especially when I didn’t run a red light.
Thanks for your time.
July 31st, 2011 at 6:18 pm
@Richie — if you entered the intersection on red, you did run a red light. I’m also confused by your description — you were in the lane of traffic designated for straight-ahead, but then ended up making a right turn?
July 31st, 2011 at 6:48 pm
Thanks Aren for your reply. I made the right turn because I thought it was the safer thing to do than to sit idle in the middle of the intersection. I made the turn after all the cars making right only turn for the freeway had cleared. What is my chances of getting a citation and outrageous fee? How would you handle this if it were you in this predicament? (I’m not qualified for traffic school.)
Thanks again.
August 1st, 2011 at 4:51 am
Hi
I received a ticket with four pictures running red light at Van Ness and Bush St. I was not driving the car at the time and the picture definitely is not mine, but i was on the passenger seat when this happened although the picture is blurred I am sure they will be able to identify me after they receive my picture when I fill out the affidavit of non-liability.
Thus, My question would be can they force me to give out the identification of the person driving assuming I know the driver since i was in the passenger seat?
On the instruction Sheet it says “please fill out the iDENTIFICATION OF THE DRIVER BY REGISTERED OWNER from the back of the the Notice completely” further it mentions providing this information will not result in the automatic dismissal of the citation. If the information is not accurate, the citation will remain on your name.
Shall i just leave that place Empty and mail it back or what do you recommend. any suggestion would be helpful.
Thank you for ruuning such a forum.
Aavas
August 1st, 2011 at 12:49 pm
@Aavas: It may not be a real ticket. A REAL ticket will give the court’s address and say to contact the court. A FAKE ticket will not say that. A REAL ticket will say “Notice to Appear.” A fake ticket usually has black and white photos. A real ticket should have color photos. Do not mail the ticket back or “nominate” (snitch out) the driver without reading this and other material on the same website: http://highwayrobbery.net/redlightcamsticket.htm
August 3rd, 2011 at 8:58 pm
Hi,
I am a new driver and get so upset by the red light cameras.
First, is it a red light camera in Oak and Octavia street??
Today i was there in the second line which is for go straight, by the time, i stopped in the red light. then, i want to make a right turn so i tried to cross to the right line when it’s able to turn right but not go straight. i crossed the whit line but still unable to make a turn. so i stopped in the intersection when it’s still red light for go straight line. will I get the ticket by my situation??
tHANKS
August 4th, 2011 at 6:25 pm
@Jessica …To trigger the cameras one must be traveling at about 15 mph or faster when crossing over the embedded loops which are usually about 11 feet in back of the limit line. I can’t tell from your description what you did. If a ticket is generated it will be mailed to the address of the registered owner of the vehicle. Wait 15 days.
August 5th, 2011 at 7:00 am
Dazed & Confuzed
I just received an “Automated Enforcement Traffic Violatoin” in the mail. It’s me..and my car – but I don’t recall running a red light. There is only a photo of the light in the opposite direction and it is green. It’s one of those lights that have an additional turn arrow light at the bottom of the standard red, yellow, green. The first photo is green and I don’t see any color/arrow in the bottom light. In the second photo, I can see that the bottom arrow is lit.
How is this proof I ran a red light? BTW – the dazed is the $480 ‘bail’ amount. They can’t be serious. That’s way more than I can afford. Please help clarify.
August 5th, 2011 at 9:21 am
@Roger
Thank you for replying. as your explanation, i guess i didnt trigger the camera then. but still wait 15 day to breath easier. Thank you. wish me luck!!
August 6th, 2011 at 2:21 pm
@Aavas….where any of those pictures taken of the back of your vehicle? I was wondering since I had been flashed on the first of july but I didn’t have a front plate. I still haven’t received a ticket?
August 8th, 2011 at 7:43 pm
@Tina…a picture is worth a thousand words. You may have a “snitch” ticket in hand. Any chance you can email me?
Roger rlouisj@aol.com
August 8th, 2011 at 7:45 pm
If you just received a red light camera ticket in Alameda County while making a right turn, I may have some good news for you. Let me know.
August 13th, 2011 at 9:19 pm
To All SF ticketed offenders…I was looking at a SF citation on line and the still photo shows as usual the suspect car at the limit line in one photo and the car about 25 feet past the limit line the 2nd photo. The data bar indicates a late entry by 0.4 seconds (photo #1) and shows the car having proceeded roughly 25 feet in the next .67 seconds (roughly 25 mph). The only signal light visible in photos is a green light for the oncoming traffic. There is no image of a red circular light facing the driver.
My question is without any photo of the red light, how does this evidence stand up in court. I don’t see any mention in this blog of contesting the fact that there is no evidence of a red light. The only evidence is that there is a data bar which presumes to say that there was a red light.
I imagine there must have been many who have brought this up and all such defenses have been to no avail. Are all traffic commissioners/judges totally accepting of the data bar evidence and whatever maintenance logs the police may have to claim the accuracy of their evidence? I am puzzled at how a system which photographs from the front of vehicles can be used as evidence?
August 16th, 2011 at 12:11 am
HI,
Just received a red light camera ticket today . I did not make full stop while I was make the right turn from WB Mowry to cedar.
THe ticket come with 4 pictures. The first two pics showed the cars on cedar were making left turn, while I yield right with 17 MPH, which I believe it is not accurate. Any way, I admit that I did not full stop.
Any suggestions?
August 16th, 2011 at 9:50 pm
Once again, I have good news for those ticketed for turning right on red in Alameda County. Contact me. rlouisj@aol.com
Do not wait until the last minute or I may not be able to help you.
August 18th, 2011 at 12:01 am
I too have been caught doing the rolling right in Redwood City @ Veterans turning on Whipple. I didnt realize like a lot of others that this was illegal and only went becasue the road was empty @11pm. The worst part 2 seconds after I turned the light turned green.
Any chance that if I request a trial the law will change for the citation amount for rolling right red light offenses? I know our old Gov. vetoed a bill to lower the fine, any chance a new bill will be passed? $500 doesnt seem fair in this instance and cant believe running through an intersection and turning right are considered the same.
August 18th, 2011 at 5:38 am
Emilio: First, visit website: http://highwayrobbery.net/redlightcamsticket.htm
– - – Do you have a real ticket or a fake ticket? Also, is the photo clear enough to prosecute? There are other things which you might be able to bring up at trial. Contact either me or the editor of that website and provide your citation no. and license plate number.
August 22nd, 2011 at 2:35 pm
I received a ticket for a rolling right turn at Howard and 9th Street in San Francisco. The photo evidence provided the ticket only shows me with my signal at a red light, then another picture of me turning (so I presume it is a rolling right that is the issue). The ticket just shows “red light enforcement”. Does SF have video evidence or other to support this charge? Or do they use time lapse to infer that I didn’t stop? I may not have come to a full stop. I cannot recall. I am not traffic school eligible, and want to fight this since I don’t see any evidence here that I failed to stop. Any advice?
August 23rd, 2011 at 1:28 am
@San Jose…Have you accessed the website on the ticket? Is there a video or just still photos available on line? I don’t see how a right turn on red can be enforced without a video. Can you transmit the citation or the Cite# and Pin no.? rlouisj@aol.com
August 24th, 2011 at 11:06 am
Hello I received a red light photo citation , the photo shows that it is me , can I still plaid not guilty and request trial and traffic school … or can I say it is my twin sister from Italy:)))
September 4th, 2011 at 1:29 pm
The easiest way up avoid the red light ticket is to remove your front plate or have a “temp” one in place. The worse you will get from a cop is a fixit ticket – just say it fell off in the car wash. It’s unlikely you will get pulled over in SF for it.
I usually am all for being a law abiding citizen, but after I got a red light camera ticket when I avoided crashing into a school bus that was being driven recklessly, I decided SF was more concerned with revenue than stopping real danger.
Ditch the front plate, and problem solved.
September 4th, 2011 at 5:43 pm
Hi,
I got a red light ticket at Harrison and Macarthur in Oakland. The photographic evidence is pretty damning indeed. But it’s an intersection just a few blocks from my house that I drive through every day. I have a really hard time believing I ran a red light – I have no memory of doing so. I’m going to contest the ticket – though I don’t have much of an argument. I’m just wondering if anyone has had any luck contesting – and if there is any sense of whether contesting by mail or in person makes a difference.
Thanks!
Melissa
September 6th, 2011 at 8:54 pm
Hi I was in san fran this summer visiting from another state. We were driving a rental car and we were lost and I made a right turn not noticing the red light because I was looking at my GPS. The ticket is $480… this is way to expensive for me as I am a college student. This there anyway to reduce this fine or do I have to just write a letter to the county. Please reply back with some hekp. Thanks
September 7th, 2011 at 4:07 pm
@joel…Did you receive a real ticket? It would say to contact the court and it would have the court’s address on it. Is the photo clear enough to identify you beyond a reasonable doubt? It would not hurt to ask the judge at arraignment and/or trial to determine that. If you object a trial to the introduction of any affadavit from the rental car company, then how did the officer identify you as the driver?
September 8th, 2011 at 1:34 pm
Hello,
Received a “NOTICE TO APPEAR” ON 9/1/2011 16 days after the violation date of 8/16/2011.
This in the city of San Mateo , CA.
Do you believe this qualifys for demurring (CVC 40518)???
I think it does but not sure.
thnx
September 8th, 2011 at 7:29 pm
Hello,
I received a red light ticket on Sep 1 2011. I wanted to plead not guilty cos the yellow light was on when i crossed the stop line. when i went to the court house & informed the clerk in the counter on sep 6th that i wanted a trial, he informed he cannot add the information into his computer & i have wait for the camera company to send me a mail then come back to court to req trial. I do not see any forum entry such as this ? It is a genuine ticket [not a snitch].
thnx
September 8th, 2011 at 10:43 pm
@Kris. You need to provide more information. City. Date of infraction. If you want to provide license plate no. and citation no. that would help in accessing the video.
rlouisj@aol.com
September 9th, 2011 at 6:01 am
Thanks for the response @Roger.
I was cited in SanFrancisco & went to the Hall of Justice in SFO. I do not have a video evidence only jpeg for this cos this was taken by the ACS camera in Presido blvd & fulton. as per my research in highwayrobbery.net there are several defects, there is not sign board warning of photo enforcement on the road, the yellow light is too short for the speed limit [3 sec yellow for 35 mph speed limit] & the pic was taken by ACS camera which would only give you forward facing pics as evidence & no red light or video evidence.
For these reasons i wanted to plead not guilty & went to San Francisco court. the Clerk told me that he is not able to enter the request in the computer & i have to wait for the Camera company to send me a mail. What i am not sure of is if this is indeed the procedure.
September 9th, 2011 at 11:44 pm
Kris – There is too much information missing to provide any help. If I had any citation no. here in Alameda County, I would simply look up the citation on the Court’s website. With the Citation no. and license plate no. I would simply look up the photos and video. I don’t have any of this information. -Roger
September 12th, 2011 at 10:51 pm
hey roger j. Yes they sent me a ticket with the court address and also there is a picture of me, but it is not very clear. but the picture shows me looking confused at my gps. Is there a possibility that i can get this ticket reduced if I write a letter to the court since i was visiting and also was looking at the gps. I mean we are tourists visiting the city and we were lost, how could they give us a ticket? thanks for your help
September 13th, 2011 at 5:13 am
Joel. Ask Judge to rule on clarity of photo. This costs nothing. A good judge will not ask you “who was driving?” Just ask the judge to rule on the evidence and dismiss because it is unclear. The argument that you are a visitor and looking at GPS will go no where. Judge would then be saying we have an exception to the law which applies to visitors. He would be in the position of changing the law. That is not his job. What city were you cited in? Help may be available.
September 13th, 2011 at 5:50 pm
I carry a class B license. Because of this, I am not eligable for traffic school ever. I just read all your blogs. Will I get a reduced fine if I can’t attend traffic school? Also, is it best to go to the clerk early and plead not gulity and then return for a trial date with the hopes of getting a “deal” or should I show up on my due date and hope to get the “deal” then. Seems like one less trip. Thanks.
September 15th, 2011 at 10:21 pm
Geoff H: It would be good to know which city issued the citation and which courthouse has jurisdiction. It is not uncommon for police and judges to change the citation to a municipal code violation. Each city has a muni code saying that you must obey traffic signs or signals. Asking the citation to be amended to a Muni Code violation in exchange for a guilty plea is often done. It will not result in a point on your record. You can do this at arraignment,” Judge, I am commercial driver. I will plea guilty to an appropriate muni code violation so that I don’t jeopardize my employment.” “If this cannot be done, I plead Not Guilty.” If you end up pleading Not Guilty, you can do the same thing at or before trial. Then you might negotiate with the police before trial and have them amend the citation.
September 17th, 2011 at 9:50 am
Hi Roger: I recently got a ticket int he mail for running a red light. I knew it was coming… I remember the flash. I have a few questions for you. First, I was behind a semi and was blocked from view of the stop light while we were stopped at the light. When the semi went, I just followed behind, realizing too late that the light had changed. I doubt that this is ‘excuse’ will hold up to a valid point for dismissal. Secondly, the picture is blurry on the ticket and online as well. I know it is me, but it would be very hard to identify me based on the picture. It looks like a man driving. Could I get dismissal based on unclarity of the photo. My next question is that I have lived in California for 1 year only. I have not yet gotten my drivers license in this state. If I got to court, could I be further fined or penalized for not yet getting my California DL? My ticket is for $480. I just don’t have that kind of money. I don’t mind accepting blame, but I really would like to have a lower fee and go to traffic school. If I go to court, do I just appear on the date scheduled or do I have to contact them prior to that to let them know? I am a little confused. Thanks for your help!
September 17th, 2011 at 11:14 am
Right, but is there anyway to reduce the fine? Since I can’t go to that traffic school since i am out of state. Also the county is the hayward police department.
September 18th, 2011 at 6:14 pm
Roger,
Thanks for the info. I am going to Bryant Street in the AM tomorrow (Monday). If you get to this in time, it sounds like I need to ask for an arraignment in front of a judge with the clerk correct?
Geoff H
September 18th, 2011 at 6:56 pm
Geoff,
Try this:
“Your honor, I will plead guilty to a Municipal Code violation since I am a commercial driver and a point on my record puts my job in jeopardy.” Now, if you violation is pretty minor (most are), try adding, “If the muni code violation carries a penalty of a lesser amount in view of the fact that I
a. was traveling slower than 10 mph while turning right . . . or
b. crossed the limit line just a fraction of second after the light turned red (exact time is on the data bar).
c. did not pose a safety hazard in light of the fact no competing traffic had moved until I had cleared the intersection….
Decide for yourself whether to push for a lower fine.
Let me know what happens. Best to get this done at arraignment, but I would still not plead Guilty unless to a Muni Code violation. You get a second bite at the apple at trial where cops may negotiate this down before your case is called.
September 19th, 2011 at 12:19 pm
Roger,
I was on Van Ness this morning and the light turned yellow. I was already late for work for I decided to speed up to make the light. Right as I entered the intersection, the light turned red and I thought, “wow, that was a really short yellow.” Then of course, the flashes came on, which made me think, “oh crap, I just got busted by the red light cameras.” The car is registered under my name but also my ex’s name since we bought the car together. The car’s registration is still listed at my ex’s address since I’ve moved out. I’m awaiting a ticket to be mailed to his address, but I’m wondering if you’d have any idea who the ticket will be mailed to, my friend or me? Do they ever send out tickets with two names on the ticket when the vehicle is co-registered?
September 19th, 2011 at 3:17 pm
Sophie – The ticket must be mailed within 15 days of the infraction. Officer will pull the car’s registration and then look for the DMV photo of the owner to see if it is similar to the driver’s photo. It will be mailed to the registered owner’s address. It sounds like you are on good enough terms to ask you ex to contact you next week or so if there is any ticket received at your previous address. By all means, if it is in His Name, ask him to NOT mail the ticket back “nominating” you as the culprit. Just email me when something arrives in the mail. Now, since you are pretty sure that the camera “flashed” you and you do not hear anything in 2 weeks, also let me know. There may be a ticket in your name or in the name of your Ex but which was undeliverable because the address on file for both of you is not current. There are ways to check whether there is a ticket in your name.
rlouisj@aol.com
September 19th, 2011 at 7:34 pm
This past Sunday we were driving on Lombard St and stopped at the stoplight. At this point I picked up my phone to look at the gps and then there were 2 flashes. We were not moving and the other light was yellow but it seemed that the flash was facing us. Any idea on what might have happened in this case? The unfortunate part is we were driving a rental car so it could be a while before we see or hear of anything if ever. Thanks!
September 19th, 2011 at 7:44 pm
Correction: after some google map digging it was at the intersection of Richardson Ave and Francisco St. We were traveling on Richardson Ave into the City from the GG. After looking at the street view perhaps the camera is for both directions of travel?
September 20th, 2011 at 1:12 am
Joel, If your ticket is from Hayward, I can probably help you a bit. By the way, was your ticket for a Right Turn on Red?? In that case I can really help you. It would be better to email me: rlouisj@aol.com
September 20th, 2011 at 1:19 am
Ryan: I don’t know which approaches are photo enforced at Richardson and Francisco. Call the Police Dept. They will tell you. If your direction of travel is photo enforced, let’s assume the rental car company gets a “snitch” ticket in the mail the week of Sept. 26. They probably will mail the “nomination” back to the police dept. Then you will probably get a ticket in the mail. Deal with it at that time by posting an blog entry or email me. In the meantime, why not contact the Rental Car Company. What is their policy? It would be great if they would just hand the snitch ticket to you and allow you to deal with it. (Toss it). Let me know if you contact the rental car company and what they say. rlouisj@aol.com
September 24th, 2011 at 10:57 pm
So I blew right through a red light on park presidio & geary and got my photo taken. I have read all the comments on here but still had to ask… I have a BMW disign as a front plate= no real front plate. Will I still get a convition?
Thanx
September 25th, 2011 at 3:12 pm
Mike….Most, if not all, SF cameras photograph the front license plate. I don’t know about each camera.
Ticket must be mailed within 11 days or so. If you live at the mailing address of the registered owner then check your mailbox 7 -14 days from the date of the camera activation. Relax until you receive a ticket.
Roger
If you are still worried in 3 or 4 weeks, check with the court and see if there is a ticket in your name.
September 25th, 2011 at 4:31 pm
Thanx Roger!! Much appreciated. I’m hopping I don’t can’t afford another point on my license.
September 28th, 2011 at 5:44 pm
Is San Francisco still offering, before you appear before the judge if you’re fighting the ticket, a reduced fine on red light camera? If I was reading from an accurate website, the fine for red light camera is $480 now! This is so outrageous, and then with the costs of traffic school. What a nightmare. I am sure that I entered on a yellow. I was not driving very fast, either, because there had just been two firetrucks blaring by us and everyone had slowed because of it. I was aware of one flash when I was about 3/4 through it (that was probably the one taken of my face). Don’t remember a first one. Oh, this was at 6th & Bryant. I was so stunned because I thought I was okay, but I am so pissed it happened. However, I know that if I were to try to fight it, I probably wouldn’t win.
Another website said that if you don’t respond to the ticket, never look it up on the computer (they apparently know if you look at it), keep ignoring it, and it will go away. Any thoughts?
September 28th, 2011 at 6:50 pm
Melanie….Did you actually receive a citation in your name? You did not say. There are instructions on the ticket on how to view the photos and video from your home computer. That should tell you if you ran the red or not. Start with that. I never heard that if you ignore the ticket it will go away except perhaps in Los Angeles.
September 28th, 2011 at 7:33 pm
No, I haven’t gotten one yet, but I have this horrible feeling one is coming. This happened just yesterday, and I’m just sick about it. When my husband did a “California stop,” his appeared within a week.
Do “they” review the photos/video before sending to make sure it’s valid or not? because I’ve heard both, that they don’t and that they do. When my husband did a “California stop,” his appeared within a week.
Also, I want to know if you still get offered up front, if you show up to court, an offer of a reduction of the fine + traffic school.
September 28th, 2011 at 8:07 pm
Melanie….Chill. Visit highwayrobbery.net to look up answers to just about any question you may have now or later. Ticket must be mailed within about 11 days. Normally you might get it in 7-14 days. It should be mailed to the address on file for the registered owner or perhaps to the address on the driver’s license. In the meantime, if you feel you must do something or worry start reading the website. When and if you or hubby receives a ticket put up a new posting.
September 30th, 2011 at 8:47 am
Roger,
I received a traffic ticket on 8th and Harrison a few weeks back and wanted to get your input. I did run the red light, but it was because of an ambulance approaching from behind me with its sirens on. I thought it would be better for me to barely run a red light and pull over to the side of the road than to obstruct the ambulance’s path. Unfortunately, you cannot see the ambulance in the photos because it was a bit too far behind me, but the photo does show another vehicle running the red light (presumably for the same reason).
Do you think this is worth fighting? Does the camera continue to take footage of the intersection after the red light ends? That way the court would be able to see that the ambulance was approaching from behind me. I don’t think there’s any other way to track down that ambulance other than from the video.
Thanks in advance for the help.
September 30th, 2011 at 3:36 pm
Tony: Yes, to me, the ticket is worth fighting. You will need to go to trial. This can be done by Trial by Written Declaration. Either pay the bail up front and have the window clerk enter a plea of Not Guilty, or go to arraignment and plead not guilty. If you go in person to Arraignment, it does not hurt to ask for the ticket to be dismissed based on unclear photo. Email with ticket info if you want an opinion on that. I would find out what ambulance calls were active at that date, time, and place. To me this sounds doable. Call the police and ask what other camera activations there were at that intersection within 5 minutes of your time. They have this information. Will they look it up? I don’t know. A subpoena may uncover this info but I am unfamiliar with how, exactly, to do that. Extensions may be easily granted to extend the time to obtain the evidence. Let me know if you will be pursuing this.
rlouisj@aol.com
October 2nd, 2011 at 7:23 am
i just got flashed today… but i definitely KNOW it was a mistake… there was a red light camera on the intersection going straight… i was about to make a right turn on the second right lane… and my arrow was GREEN… there was a shuttle car on the far right right next to me taking over two lanes… so by the time the arrow going to the right turned GREEN i pulled out and made a wide right turn to avoid the shuttle on my right side cez he was too close to my car… but i guess i set off the camera because i guess that i turn wide enough that i cencored the camera for the intersection going straigt and that light was red… am i gonna recieve that ticket? cez i know that if they review the photos that they’ll see that my signal was on going to the right when they review the photo or if i recieve the ticket would i beat this to court? because i definitely know i DID NOT ran a red light….. i;m just stressing out right now…..
October 2nd, 2011 at 7:48 am
p.s. the street was Octavia and Oak and the camera was recieving the intersection going straight but i was making a right turn on a GREEN light arrow… are the cameras or that camera can determined wether my arrow was green or red?? this is 7am and i for sure KNOW that that arrow was green but i have this lil doubt that it was red cez i’m stressing out…
October 2nd, 2011 at 1:31 pm
Bhok: Each camera activation is reviewed by an officer. If it looks like a violation occurred and the officer can match the driver’s license photo to the camera image a ticket will be mailed. (or it might be mailed to the reg. owner of the vehicle). Check your mail box for about 14 days or the mailbox of the owner. Then worry if you get a ticket. Repost if necessary.
October 5th, 2011 at 6:52 am
First thank you for the service you do. We really appreciate your time. I ran a red on Octavia and Oak and had my picture taken. I know this because of the multiple flash. This happened back on July 31, 2011. Like Bhok I’ve been stressing out as well but not as much anymore. So far I have not received anything. Should I keep stressing? I’m hoping that the cameras on Octavia/Oak intersection were not working since they have not sent me an expensive ticket. Is there still a possibility for a ticket in the mail?
Thanks again.
October 6th, 2011 at 8:04 pm
Rich – camera ticket must be mailed in about 11 days, if I recall. Maybe it was mailed to the registered owner. Who was the car registered to? If you want to just put the matter to rest call the court and ask if there is a ticket in your name.
October 7th, 2011 at 9:27 pm
Roger,
I recently recieved a red light camera ticket in the mail in san diego,ca. I was making a left turn. My ticket has the four photos, one showing me right behind the line when the light had JUST turned red at the time of 0.5 seconds before crossing it. And then again when I was already in the middle of the intersetion at 1.8 seconds. My ticket is 480 and I dont have the option of going to traffic school, nor can I afford to pay that much for a ticket!
I want to know if its worth fighting, because really?, .5 of a second. I read somewhere online that the delay time for the red light camera to take a picture is .3 of a second because they dont expect people to be able to brake that fast but it will start taking pictures at .5. It practically takes a whole second to blink how do they expect someone to stop within half a second. I do admit I probably should have tryed not to make the light but at the moment It seemed that I would be in the clear. It didnt look like the yellow light was going to change right then.
Since me running the red light is so close to the delay time will that make any difference? And in the video it shows I was completely out of the intersetion before the traffic started moving again, would that help at all?
I am really considering trying to fight it, the thought of by .2 of a second I couldve possibly saved 480 dollars is haunting me.What do you think? Any light that you can shine on my situation is greatly appreciated!
Thank you a bunch!
October 8th, 2011 at 6:04 pm
Hello,
Received a “NOTICE TO APPEAR” ON 9/1/2011 16 days after the violation date of 8/16/2011.
This in the city of San Mateo , CA.
Do you believe this qualifys for demurring (CVC 40518)???
I think it does but not sure.
thnx
October 9th, 2011 at 8:14 pm
Rose – I don’t know the yellow light timings at each camera intersection in LA but most likely they are at or above the minimum. There is a warm up time to different type of lights – incandescent vs. lcd or whatever but I think I read it was around 1/10th second. All this can possibly be raised at trial, but to have a reasonably good chance of winning, would take an immense amount of research with no guarantee of success. Is there an easy way for you to see how San Diego camera cases are handled? Spend an afternoon in court perhaps observing. I am pretty familiar with a few courts here in Alameda County. One seems to have RLC officers plea bargain in the hallway to a lower violation (1/2 price). Other commissioners generously allow community service. Is that an option? Nearly everyone I talk with does not use the ID defense – does the image on the ticket resemble you beyond a reasonable doubt. I tell violators they are the worse judge of the clarity of the photo.
Don’t forget Trial by Written Declaration. Ask for Community Service or even a conviction of a less included offense: 21461, I believe, “failure to obey a traffic control device. Or ask for 4 months to pay if CS is declined. Some community service work can actually be rewarding, fun, and lead to unintended consequences which can be beneficial.
Saying you were ONLY 1/2 second late; or there was no cross traffic (in my opinion) hurts your case and does not help you at all. It begs the commissioner to NOT allow leniency since it would be to approve that you have the right to determine which laws to obey.
read more at highwayrobbery.net
October 10th, 2011 at 8:43 am
I was 4th car in left turn lane. When turning i saw 2 or 3 white flashes. The light seemed to be yellow for very short period, it seemed, and was red before my turn was completed. if i entered on yellow but finished on red, will i get a ticket? what is best way to fight this ticket in Escondido, California.
October 10th, 2011 at 9:16 am
Heide = Demurring sounds possible. Read up on the subject here:
http://highwayrobbery.net/indexExpanded.htm#Def8
Do you have the envelope showing the postmark?
October 10th, 2011 at 7:46 pm
C. Anthony: If your front bumper is just a little past the limit line or first line of a crosswalk when the light turns from yellow to red, you are OK. Ticket must be received by registered owner within 15 days, if one was issued.
October 11th, 2011 at 10:29 am
Roger J.
The postmark on envelope, signature of declarant and certificate of mailing are all the same date….9/1/2011.
16 days after the violation date.
I submitted the TBWD forms (filled out and copied) yesterday.
Hoping for a good result.
October 11th, 2011 at 12:39 pm
Heide – please let me know directly or by post how things turned out, please.
-Roger rlouisj@aol.com
October 13th, 2011 at 3:11 pm
I saw the camera flashes on 1st of september in sf.. I still haven’t got the ticket. I had changed the vehicle registration address online, just a few days ago to my new apartment address. And my driver’s license address was not successfully updated through online address change service. (I found that out later). Immediately next day I went to DMV and filled up the form to update my driver license address. Anyways its been almost 45 days and I still haven’t received the ticket at my new address or even at the old address (I know the landlord). What if it is lost in mail? How do I find out if there is pending ticket on my name? I checked my driving record and it says no conviction and no failure to appear.
October 13th, 2011 at 5:31 pm
Hi Roger,
Follow up from my previous post above. I received a “courtesy notice” in the mail, stating that a citation has been issued to me. It has the citation date of 9/19/11 and payment due date of 10/21/11. The odd thing is, it’s addressed to me, but at my old address, yet it was still delivered to my current address. There was no forwarding address on it, so I have no idea how it was delivered to me. I talked to my ex and he said he received something at his address (where I’m no longer living) that was addressed to me. It’s a letter from the police department that has my name and registration info, as well as the pictures taken from the cameras, which has a pretty clear picture. It says I have until the 17th to respond to the court. Am I pretty much out of luck here?
October 13th, 2011 at 5:33 pm
oh, just an FYI, the new fine for red light tickets in SF is $480, plus $52 for traffic school. :-/
October 14th, 2011 at 8:44 am
Sophie – First of all, get a 30-day extension. This can be done in Alameda County on line. I don’t know about SF. Other than, get an extension at the traffic window at the courthouse. Where is the ticket with the photographs? Your ex has? Get a copy from the police dept if you cannot find it. Call ahead of time and find out how much nonsense you have to go through to get a copy. Why can’t they mail it to you? They have your driver’s license address, correct. Anyway, once you have actually seen your ticket and viewed the video and photos, decide what to do. Not too many options that will successfully get you out of a $480 fine, but at least give yourself the opportunity. Let me know by post or email.
rlouisj@aol.com
October 14th, 2011 at 8:47 am
Sweating Bullets…. Find out from the court if there is a citation in your name. If so, get citation number and any information – due dates, etc. Once a citation is issued it takes a few days for the ticket to be registered with the court, but it sounds like enough time has elapsed for that to have happened. If there is a citation in your name, then submit a new post.
October 14th, 2011 at 10:39 am
Hi Roger,
My ex gave me the ticket that was mailed to his house. There’s a clear photo unfortunately. I’m probably out of luck, aren’t I?
October 14th, 2011 at 11:59 am
Sophie – Is it a real ticket? Does it say “Notice to Appear” and does it have the Courts address, etc.? (or does it say NOT to contact the court). Does the photo show the car – the limit line – and a clearly illuminated red light in one photo? Have you seen the video? Has someone else looked at the photo for clarity? How about giving me the citation no., City, License plate no. so I can see your ticket.
October 14th, 2011 at 12:56 pm
The photo is pretty clear. My friend even laughed at how accurate the photo was.
citation #: ZA0293054
pin number: 245429501
October 15th, 2011 at 9:54 am
Sophie – I looked at the photos. I don’t know how SF prosecutes these tickets when there does not seem to be a photograph of a red light in the photos. How do we know the light was red?
October 15th, 2011 at 2:13 pm
I noticed that too. Should I call the court and point this out?
October 15th, 2011 at 2:42 pm
Sophie: Surely the issue of not having a photograph of the red signal light must have come up in court before. How can you find out how the commissioner handles something like that? I know Sherry Gendelman is a traffic atty with an office in SSF I believe. She probably has had clients and appeared in SF court before. I suggest contacting her for advice. Maybe a short consultation may not cost you.
October 15th, 2011 at 2:44 pm
Sophie: Sherry Gendelman’s email address: sherrygendelman@aol.com
October 15th, 2011 at 2:49 pm
Thanks Roger! I’ll contact her today.
October 16th, 2011 at 5:51 am
Sophie….From some old posts, it appears that SF may offer deals to folks at trial if they will plead guilty and take traffic school. If you have time, find out when camera cases are heard and where and sit in. Get there early and talk to the camera cops on what you might expect at trial. Bring your ticket. Report back.
October 16th, 2011 at 4:37 pm
Unfortunately my ticket is due tomorrow, so that’s my final day to do anything. I’m planning on stopping by the court before work and seeing if they’ll reduce my fine. Fingers crossed.
October 16th, 2011 at 7:03 pm
Sophie – Suggestion – I assume you will be seeing one of the traffic window clerks Monday? Ask them if they know if the judge knocks the fine down on Guilty pleas at arraignment or at trials. Also, ask about getting a routine 30 or 60 day extension (doesn’t hurt). Ask, also, if you could get a preset appt. for arraignment…I know that here in Fremont one cannot do this anymore. They make you arrive before court doors open to get in line in the hope that you can get into court that day. Find out what there system is.
I find many clerks helpful. They don’t want to be caught giving “legal advice” but many are just regular folks who may help you best that they can. Ask them for ideas/alternatives.
Let me know. Good luck.
October 16th, 2011 at 9:57 pm
Hi Roger,
Unfortunately, I realized I couldn’t afford a lost day, or even half day in court since I’m a freelancer and am paid hourly. I just sucked it up and paid the fine plus traffic school fees plus administration fees for a whopping $537.40. Another one bites the dust. :-/
October 17th, 2011 at 10:01 pm
Thanks Roger, you gave me some good tips I appreciate it!
October 18th, 2011 at 10:55 am
Roger,
My email to you was overlooked back on September 17th. I think that you were in the middle of helping someone else out of their crisis. If you could read my email and respond, I would appreciate it.
October 18th, 2011 at 11:06 am
Hi Roger-Do you have anything on South San Francisco red light camera violations? I made a right turn at El Camino Real and Westborough Blvd @ a red light that said ok to turn after making a stop. I’m confident that I made a stop, it said that there was 3.1 seconds in between arrival and departure of the light (i could see the end of my car making the turn). There was no on-coming traffic or anyone making a U-turn (a left turn signal was green @ the time) and no pedestrians. I made a completely safe right turn, so I’m wondering if I should try to contest this?
October 18th, 2011 at 10:08 pm
Hi Roger,
I was driving down on Mission St a few days ago and made a left turn on 16th (while the light was green), before I realized there was a a “no left turn” sign. I saw there are cameras on every possible angle on that corner. Would the cameras catch the left turn? Please tell me they won’t…
October 18th, 2011 at 11:44 pm
@Paula — no, the camera at that intersection won’t pick up that infraction.
October 19th, 2011 at 5:59 pm
Steph – If you give the website and info to view the infraction, I could see for myself. I don’t see many ATS tickets and videos. Usually the 2nd photo is taken about 1 second after the first. Also, without a video it is hard to prove that you did not stop. Did you view the video. Do you know if you received a real ticket which says “Notice to Appear?”
October 19th, 2011 at 6:00 pm
Aren – There is one commissioner in Alameda County who changes right turn violations from 21453(a) to (b) and lowers the fine drastically. Do you know of any in San Mateo or San Francisco counties??
October 26th, 2011 at 7:55 am
Thank you for all the info, very helpful. My dad just received a ticket for $486. He was turning to El Camino Blvd from Hickey Blvd, on red. There are 2 contradicting signs, “Red Light Violation $446″ and “After Stop turn is permitted on Red”.
He later went back and took pictures of the signs. Any chances here? WHat would be the best course of action?
Thanks
October 26th, 2011 at 7:09 pm
Linda,
a. look at video – chances are dad did not stop.
b. look at photo – is it clear enough to identify him? If a possibility that it is unclear enough to identify him, that could work – and there are some tips to help him make that case. (he is the worst judge of the clarity of the photo.) He will say it looks like him. (that is because, most likely, it IS him.) Nothing else comes to mind without knowing more. The “contradicting signs” argument seems to have no “legs.”
October 27th, 2011 at 12:20 pm
Great info, Aren and Roger J. I’m pretty sure I have a camera citation on my way to me, after I got “lit up” at Van Ness and Bush in SF. As bad as the $480 ticket is, this section of Van Ness is a “double fine zone”–could this mean I’m in for $960? Yowza. I revisited the intersection today, and there is certainly no posted signage in any direction that it’s a camera-controlled intersection. As with others above, I’m confused on the CVC regulation that the intersection must be signed in all directions OR that all major entrances to the city but be signed. There are hints above that this is not a good strategy to pursue–can anyone elaborate on why? Assuming the lack-of-signage argument is not a good one, and assuming my impending citation shows my face and license plate clearly, it doesn’t seem like my ticket is worth fighting, even by a trial by declaration. Thoughts?
October 27th, 2011 at 7:38 pm
Nick P…How much time can you devote to fighting this potential ticket? First – be on the lookout for the mailman. Did you get a ticket – Was it postmarked within 11 days of the infraction and received within 15 days? Is the photo clear enough? does it resemble any other household members, etc? Look up “it’s not me” section under “fighting your ticket” at highwayrobbery.net. Study up while you wait for the mail man. Then, repost.
October 27th, 2011 at 9:20 pm
Lena, I know that intersection well, and it IS very confusing. I’m never sure what to do their, either. I don’t know how that area is zoned, but people should complain about it.
October 27th, 2011 at 9:22 pm
Roger J, I’m the same Melanie that was worried I was going to get a ticket (several posts above) for the light flashing on me at 6th/Bryant. Well, much to my relief, I did not get a ticket in the mail and it has been over a month. Phew!
November 6th, 2011 at 1:41 am
Hi Aren/Roger,
First of all, thank you so much for having this blog.
I drove the rental car and got a citation for red light camera at Wilshire & Santa Monica junction (LA). It was bad traffic and I had bad stomach pain and wanted to follow the car in front of me when he/she was stumbled the gear to pass the intersection. Unfortunately, I was too late while the car before me was not. This is my first ticket. The car is a rental car, we just moved to L.A so we do not have Cali driver license yet. The ticket was under my husband name who was not present in the car that day. The birthday was incorrect but it was the real ticket (I checked). Can my husband issue in the ticket “Not Me” and “Decline to state” the driver? Would this work since the rental car might have my name as part of the insurance with rental company as well? I do not want my husband to be in trouble but again $480 + $60 are too much to pay. Your help is much appreciated.
P.S (My husband’s current driver license has old address where my driving license has our new address on it).
November 7th, 2011 at 10:02 pm
Angie, The ticket is real (not a snitch ticket) and was issued to your husband. If true, your husband can show “his” ticket to the judge at arraignment and ask him to dismiss it. “Judge, can you please dismiss since obviously it is a woman driving.” If not successful, plead Not Guilty and see if the officer testifies as to the accuracy of his identification of the driver. Again, ask the judge to dismiss for lack of evidence. Your husband does not have to testify. Your husband cannot be cross examined. He cannot be asked who was driving. Your husband can do this by mail (Trial by Written Declaration) by enclosing a copy of his driver’s license and the photo ticket which clearly shows someone else driving.
If your husband just mails the ticket back saying “it’s not me.” it may give police the opportunity to research other drivers at the address and come up with your image.
November 8th, 2011 at 3:56 pm
Roger, did you ever hear back from Heidi, who had the question on demurring (dated Oct. 11th)? She stated having filed a TBWD form — curious how it worked out for her. I may be in the same boat. Do you have any idea as to a success rate by way of demurring?
Thank you.
November 9th, 2011 at 1:16 pm
EDJ – I have not heard back from Heide and don’t know the success rate for demurring. If I learn something I will let you know. Ask the editor of highwayrobbery.net
November 9th, 2011 at 4:39 pm
Roger/Aren I got a rolling right camera ticket in Millbrae and am not eligible for Traffic school. I paid bail of $524 and have a trial scheduled for 12/23. I have to fight it, as my livelihood depends on it (must keep my driver’s record clean). The picture is clear and the video is showing me turning without stopping first. Can you help?
November 10th, 2011 at 4:35 pm
Thanks for this blog. Just came home to a letter asking for $482 for a right on red without stopping. In my view, that is extremely excessive for the offense. $482 seems more like a barreling straight through at 70mph with a BAC of 0.16 (just a joke…am not endorsing drunk driving). Since they have photos and video, it would appear my goose is cooked from the standpoint of disputing the charge, but do I have a chance at getting the fine reduced? With traffic school to avoid the point on my license, that’s a bill of $532, which really hurts.
November 10th, 2011 at 4:36 pm
11/10 4:35pm post took place at Howard & 9th in SF, if that makes a difference. Thanks
November 14th, 2011 at 8:23 pm
I just got a letter from red light camera people going to the left on red from one way street to one way street. It seemed I had time to do it on yellow, but the photo shows red, so does the video. I was on Irwin and Third, in Marin County, north of SF, on October 31.
I am a teacher, single parent and suport my mom and my 10 year old child, I cannot pay ANY bail, I do not have a dime to spear: what happens if you cannot pay?
November 15th, 2011 at 6:47 am
Stas G – - – At trial, seek out the cop beforehand and ask him if he would agree to changing the violation to 21710 (coasting) or to the appropriate Municipal Code for Millbrae (failure to obey a traffic control device). Go on line to find out Millbrae’s Muni Code Number. You could even contact the cop ahead of time. Many cops and courts recognize the fact that commercially licensed drivers can lose their job if they get a point. For whatever reason you cannot get a point on your license, you should ask about these options. The fine for 21710 is about 1/2 the amount. Muni Code violation might be the same amt. but it will not go onto your driving record. Neither would require traffic school. The fact that it is a fairly minor violation (slow speed turn) will help you convince the cop or court to reduce the pain. Submit a post to this blog on the result.
November 15th, 2011 at 6:51 am
Ian – - I am not familiar with SF tickets and have seen some photo tickets and videos which do not show a red light in the photograph since the photo is taken from the front. Other than that, judges seem to generously grant permission to do community service work in lieu of the fine. Sometimes, they cannot dismiss about $70 but the rest of the fine can be commuted. You can work it off at any qualified non-profit ($10 per hour). Traffic School can be requested but the $57 fee can be worked off…you must pay that after you paid your fine. Food Banks are good places to do community service because they use a lot of people and can put you to work in the 2 or 3 months you will be given to complete your 40+ hours of service. Community Service can be performed anywhere in the state not just in the city which cited you.
November 15th, 2011 at 6:56 am
Zoe – see comment above directed toward Ian. Community Service can be requested at arraignment. “Your honor, I would like to plead guilty if you can grant me permission to do community service.” If for some reason, the judge says no, change your plea to Not Guilty. Get a trial date. You may get a different judge and then ask again. In fact, if you get the same judge you can challenge the judge. Google 170.6 peremptory challenge or read up on it at highwayrobbery.net
November 15th, 2011 at 7:32 am
Thank you, Roger.
Should I forget the Trial by Declaration and all that advise to try to get oit of this?
November 15th, 2011 at 3:48 pm
…out of this?:)
November 15th, 2011 at 7:01 pm
Does anyone know the speed limit on Park Presidio Blvd between the Golden Gate Bridge and Lake Street? I received a RL ticket while in SF on vacation, but I don’t live there to check the route. Is it worth pointing out that I was going below the speed limit at the time, and had I been going the speed limit I would have been past the commitment line–I was 0.4 sec late? Also, is there required Red Light camera signage entering SF from GG Bridge onto Highway 1 Southbound (Park Presidio Blvd)? Finally, where are the lights at that intersection? My recollection is that there is one on each side of the road (not overhead) on the far side of the intersection.
November 15th, 2011 at 7:07 pm
Zoe – Good idea. If you can do the community service ask the judge in TBWD. Plead Guilty and asked that you be sentenced to 48 hours of service. Explain briefly the financial hardship. Even if it is not granted you can ask for a new trial – Trial de Novo.
November 16th, 2011 at 9:35 am
Thank you very much, Roger!
November 16th, 2011 at 1:13 pm
TO ALL: If you get cited for a red light camera ticket in Fremont or within the jurisdiction of the Fremont Courthouse, you must avoid Traffic Commissioner Nancy Lonsdale. People bring their ticket to court to see the judge primarily to get extensions, a payment plan, or community service. Any of these things are much harder to get and some are virtually impossible from Lonsdale. Any other commissioner or judge will be much more generous. Plea “Not Guilty” at arraignment or issue a peremptory challenge (see Calif code of civil procedure 170.6) in order to get in front of a different judge.
November 17th, 2011 at 1:14 am
I’ve just received a ticket for ostensibly failing to stop at a red signal at Van Ness and Bush. The pictures just show me entering the intersection. The close-up of my license plate shows another license plate right behind me. I never would have entered the intersection if the light had been red–in heavy traffic at 3 PM on a Friday. There is no picture of a stoplight or me leaving the intersection. On the website, the yellow time is listed as 3.5 and the red time as 0.4. Could someone help me interpret this?
November 17th, 2011 at 6:18 am
Kathleen. Aren’s previous response to someone else will help you decipher the data bar.
” Those ACS camera readouts (gatsometer) are impossible to read — probably purposefully so.
“Time since red” is in the same place in both pictures. 0.4 in the first photo, and 1.1 in the second photo, a difference of .7. The .67 number is the actual time between the two photos (which rounds to .7).
So at 33 mph, a car goes 48.4 feet per second (tip, google does these conversions for you … just search for “33mph in feet per second”) so .67 seconds yields 34 feet.
If I were to do a trial by written declaration for this ticket, I would say that there is no evidence in these photos that the driver is facing a steady red signal. The traffic lights that are visible in these pictures are all green.”
Kathleen,
Is there a video? Have you seen it? Would you like me to take a look? If so, provide this info to me at rlouisj@aol.com
>
> website: public.cite-web.com
>
> Citation No. ______
>
> Pin No. _____
November 17th, 2011 at 2:12 pm
HI IWAS TRYINGTO JUMP YELLOW,BUT I WAS TOO FAR AND SPEEDING AND JUMPED RED CLEARLY BUT I REMEMBER NO CAMERA FLASHED.
WHAT WILL HAPPEN NEXT?
November 18th, 2011 at 12:03 am
Hi, I rolled through a right turn on a red light in San Mateo, at e.Hillsdale Blvd and Saratoga. Just 2 weeks after my husband got his first ticket in 7 years at same place. This place is a super trap. I wondered if San Mateo county offered the same fee reduction if you sign up for a court appearance? Also I wondered if they offered community service. I have a feeling they don’t. This ticket is $519.98, and my husbands is $480….I asked why the difference, and was told over the phone that it depended on your driving record. I can NOT AFFORD this. It has been a few years since I got a ticket,so I can go to traffic school. I hope that the option of a fee reduction if you go to traffic school, if you sign up for court is happening in San Mateo. My appearance date is Monday, Nov.21st. ..and thanks for this service, it is so nice to ask questions of a person with knowledge and get quick reply’s. thanks so much.
November 18th, 2011 at 4:40 am
Roger,
Thanks for all the great info. I’ll keep you posted.
November 18th, 2011 at 7:48 am
Roger, I was told most county’s have to have a sign posted of a red light camera. If this is true there is none visible at the intersection where I got this ticket, in San Mateo. Do you know if there is a place that actually lists each county’s rules for these rickets? It seems pretty random. Thanks for your time, this is such a awesome service you are doing for the public, many of who are going through much stress over these outrageously expensive tickets…..and in this economy they keep going up. Thanks, again. :>)
November 18th, 2011 at 9:27 pm
Jean,
I did not know of higher fines than $490 anywhere and that fines were being assessed on driving records. I would like to know more. Can you find out? What is the formula or what marks against your driving record trigger higher fines. This is important.
A city must post signs either at entrances to the city or at each intersection where there are cameras. Virtually every city opts for the signs at city entrances. Fewer signs – (maybe more violations, too).
I have very little info on if there are reductions based on your appearance in court or based on a guilty plea. I doubt if Traffic School results in a reduction of the fine but it will keep point hidden from your insurance co.
There may be a few possible defenses but not available before Monday. If you are going to arraignment (and not trial) on Monday, you may have time to find out more information before trial.
How would you like to be a courtroom observer? I have seen over a dozen commissioners and hundreds of requests for community service. C.S. has always been granted if unemployed or working 20 hours or less. Many times with no questions asked. The only exception I have found ANYWHERE is Commissioner Nancy Lonsdale of the Fremont Courthouse who virtually NEVER grants community service. For tons of information on redlight cameras see website: highwayrobbery.net
November 19th, 2011 at 12:46 am
Thanks so much for the quick reply. On Monday, I am going for an arraignment. I am going to check San Mateos countys entrance signs, just to be sure. I will ask on Monday, how they determine the amount of ticket. The only points I could have are for , a few years ago, a speeding ticket, and another for not making a complete stop at a stop sign. I have no DUI’S, or any serious accidents. I will tell you about how San Mateo determines the amount of the ticket, after I find out. What a honor, to be the one with the highest dollar amount ticket…..a distinction I could live without. Hopefully I will have some kind of usable defense. Thanks again, Last night I did start to check out highwayrobberynet Thanks, Roger. I will let you know what I find out at my arrainment. :>)
November 22nd, 2011 at 1:13 pm
I just got busted for a red light violation by a camera at the intersection of Ocatavia and Fell. There are 4 lanes at this intersection, the left two go straight and the right two go on to the freeway when heading north on Fell. I was in lane 2, counting from left to right, where the farthest left lane is lane 1, lanes 1 and 2 had a red light (33sec) and lanes 3 and 4 had the green light to make a right turn. As I approached the intersection I realized that I was in the wrong lane to get on the freeway. I put on my turn signal and moved right, across a solid white line to get in to lane 3 to make the right. Because I made this decision at the last moment, during the first part of my turn, the left side of my car was still in lane 2 by just a hair, as such I triggered the red light camera. The final part of my turn is fully in the correct lane. The video online shows all of this pretty clearly.
If this made any sense to anyone, I would like their input as to what I should do.
Contest and represent myself? Contest and pay 150-200$ for representation? Not contest?
thank you!
November 22nd, 2011 at 3:51 pm
hi. I got a red light ticket. tried to watch the video and only got a white movie. when i sent the info to my PROGRAMMER/CODE WRITER boyfriend who’s a super geek, he sent it back to me and then it was just black. the Violation.com website doesnt even allow me to view a thing. Anyway, as i was waiting for my trial date. I checked the box that allows me to pay and then have my trial. a few weeks later i got mail from the court and it was a failure to appear. apparently i got one a month before too and never got a ticket or ANY SINGLE THING and had no idea i was even supposed to be there. I thought they had the date wrong bc i was supposed to be in court the 17th, and apparently my other trial was on the 7th of this month. (not to mention that i never told them what i chose bc i never got anything about it) anyway, i went to the court to let them know how they messed my my stuff and she said ‘no, you are making payments on this, and you already made one.” Ummm.. no. i wouldnt make payments on anything, for one…and i didnt. i had the copies of my check and everything from my bank. i actually got the woman who made the mistake and she admitted it, changed it, and gave me a new date. so…if i didnt go in…..i wouldve never gotten my court date. ever. now luckily this is 48 days since the offense and i think i can get off that one just because of that, right? is it really that easy? i already paid. they pay back?
Now on to never getting the notice/ticket in the first place….how in the world do i go about proving this? now it’s the state’s word against mine. this is unfair, and i have to find a way to get out of this.
even if i am guilty, which i dont know bc i cant see the videos….these both should be thrown out if you ask me.
PRETTY PLEASE HELP ME, my trial is MONDAY the 28th at 8:30am! (nov)
lots of love from SF:)
rachel
November 23rd, 2011 at 12:01 am
Rachael F…Go to the police dept and ask them to pull up the video. See what it shows. If Monday is your trial date (and not arraignment), wait and see what the prosecution’s case is. Object if you like based on hearsay. Maybe video is unavailable and ask for dismissal based on lack of evidence. A video is only necessary if infraction was for a right turn. If straight through or left turn, only still pictures are necessary to convict. Is red light clearly visible in photo and are you clearly identifiable in photos. These questions can be asked. You can tell your story to judge and ask for a continuance.
November 23rd, 2011 at 12:26 am
Bob…I have seen something similar twice in court. Were cited under 21453(a) or (c)?? Usually it is a driver in a left turn lane who runs the red as he merges to the right to go straight on a green light.
The argument is that you entered the intersection and made a legal right turn. Ask that infraction be amended to either illegal lane change or some code which prohibits making a turn from an improper lane. Now if the infraction is changed, then it will be for a violation which carries a lower fine and which does not have a mandatory minimum of $480. Now once that is done and the prosecution rests its case, make the argument that only 21453 can be photo enforced. Cameras are not allowed as evidence of illegal lane changes or using cell phones, etc. Email editor@highwayrobbery.net for more information. Both times I have witnessed similar situations resulted in guilty verdicts because the law was not clearly explained to judge. Be prepared. You can make this argument in Trial by Written Declaration. Include actual vehicle codes you violated and include the language in the law which prohibits the cameras being used to cite infractions other than 21453′s. Oh, by the way, I once heard a judge ask the defendant if he would agree to plea guilty to illegal lane change. This can get tricky. You want to agree to change the violation, but also do not want to admit to committing this offense. Your statement that you violated a different law can be used against you even if the camera evidence cannot.
November 23rd, 2011 at 9:19 am
Wow! thanks for the quick and useful response. I have emailed the editor and will think carefully about what you have suggested. If you would find it useful, I can also send you the information to view the video…
thanks again!
November 23rd, 2011 at 4:43 pm
Bob – you can email me at rlouisj@aol.com if you want to keep your citation off the internet. The editor of highwayrobbery.net will ask you to contact your legislator about the fraud of these cameras in return for personal help. Believe me, he knows more than I. I encourage a letter to your elected rep.
November 25th, 2011 at 2:15 pm
Hi,
I was making a right turn between Westborough and El Camino in south city at around 4am on Nov. 24 (yup, right after thanksgiving). When I made the right turn, i believe the light was turnning from yellow to red. The next thing I remember was the camera flashes. Everything went so fast that I wasn’t sure if I made the right turn during yellow light or red light. I do know that I slowed down when making the turn but did not a stop since I thought I was turnning on yellow not red. Per south city website, they review all videos/pics before issuing a citiation. Now how do I know if I will be getting a citiation or not? When should I be expecting it and if I don’t receive anything should I call the south city hotline? any info would help. thank you.
November 26th, 2011 at 4:29 pm
T.C. I believe the citation must be postmarked within 11 days or received in 15 days. Wait. Save envelope if you get the ticket and make note of the date. Then visit photonotice.com to view the video. Are you the registered owner? If your driver’s license photo cannot be matched with photo ticket, the ticket might be issued in the owner’s name. Let the owner know to contact you – AND not to ID you by sending your name in. Repost at that time.
November 26th, 2011 at 10:29 pm
Hi Roger,
Thanks for the fast reply!! I’m the registered owner for the car. If I don’t get the ticket within 15 days, should I call the south city traffic violation hotline to verify? I’m just afraid that if the ticket get lost in the mail and I don’t do the proper action on time, I’ll be penalized for bigger amount (I heard cases where some people didn’t get their citation in the mail and when the they receive the 2nd notice, the penality gets bigger).
Also, if I do get the ticket and it turns out that I did make the right turn on red not yellow light, can I plead guilty in the court to have the amount reduce and then go to traffic school? Or should I fight it and not plead guilty but how would I fight it? I know I’m eligable for traffic school but if I plead guilty, would the judge waive my traffic school option?? Thanks!!!
November 27th, 2011 at 7:40 pm
Fines do not increase. If you fail to pay or plea by due date (usually about 60 days from infraction), a civil assessment of $300 can be added.
If you get a citation look closely at time into red (see data bar), clarity of photo, and other particulars. If you do not get a citation you should be able to contact the court and see if there is a citation in your name. You have nothing to do (but worry, I guess) for the next 7-14 days.
November 28th, 2011 at 8:12 am
Hi Roger,
Thanks for the info. I’ll wait now.
November 28th, 2011 at 7:19 pm
Hi, I just received a $480 ticket for rolling through the red on a right turn at Veterans and Whipple. I looked at the video and it’s pretty clear. The photo is pretty clear. The ticket is a real ticket, not a ‘snitch’. I am losing my job and recently declared bankruptcy. This fine is not something I can afford to pay, nor the increase in insurance. Will Redwood City/San Mateo Cty lower this fine if I plead my hardship? I’m devastated by this.
Thanks for any help you can provide.
November 28th, 2011 at 11:48 pm
I got a ticket at Westborough and Hickey near Costco. There are 2 confusing signs, “red light ticket”, and “after stop turn is permitted on red.” I thought I stopped and made a right, then the flashes and I got a ticket. Has anyone had experience with the courts understanding the confusion with this intersection? I need to appear before 12/12/11.
November 28th, 2011 at 11:49 pm
Can someone give me the website for San Mateo so i can see the video of my accused crime?
November 29th, 2011 at 12:31 am
jen…I had heard the Redwood City judge knocks off $100 for a quick plea of guilty. Take traffic school to keep point hidden from insurance co. Ask for community service. Sit in traffic court one day to learn what your odds are. I found every commissioner is willing to grant community service to those with financial hardship. Pick your own nonprofit to complete your service. You are credited for $10 for every hour of service. Look up food banks in your area if you don’t know who to do your time with. They are used to hiring short-term court-ordered community service workers. I have found only one commissioner anywhere who does not grant community service and that is Commissioner Nancy Roberts Lonsdale of Fremont.
November 29th, 2011 at 7:21 pm
Hi There,
I am the same position as Danny. I got a ticket at Westborough and Hickey near Costco for a rolling stop on a red light. I was just wondering, how much would the judge be able to knock off the fine, based on the fact that there is solid evidence that I rolled a stop light? I turn at this intersection every morning before I go to work and that one morning I failed to stop completely. To clarify, the steps I need to take are: 1) write a written appeal for trial 2) go to court 3) attend traffic school. Thanks so much!
November 29th, 2011 at 10:35 pm
Rachel….How clear is the photo? Can someone other than you identify you beyond a reasonable doubt. Without any other info, I don’t see much grounds for a defense. Why not become an activist? I see the latest camera contract was approved by a vote of 3-2. Certainly of the city’s over 6,000 tickets a year at this intersection, most were issued to right turners. Sounds do-able to change one council member’s vote.
December 2nd, 2011 at 12:15 am
Hi there,
I just found this blog – Thank you Aren and Rodger for a wealth of information!
I got cited for a red light camera ticket (straight through) in Fremont (Mission/Warm Springs). I requested for a Trial by Written Declaration and received form TR-205 but have not filed the form yet. I wish I had read this blog and highwayrobbery.net before initiating the TBD process, as this is probably not a smart way to go. I think my only chance in beating this ticket via this route is if the citing officer (Frank Noey, retired Fremont police officer now working for the Fremont police department) fails to file for his declaration, which seems highly unlikely. It will also take a lot of time and energy that I currently do not have in trying NOT to end up with Commissioner Lonsdale (requesting Trial De Novo and challenging the judge). And yes, I have also read articles on Commissioner Lonsdales track record.
Could you please tell me, can I still go to the clerk’s office and change my plea to guilty and still go to traffic school? Or have I waived my rights to traffic school just by requesting the TBD procedure?
(And yes, just to confirm, my “ticket” still states “If you choose to appear in court you must first view the video of this violation at http://www.photonotice.com”.)
Thank you in advance for your time!
December 2nd, 2011 at 12:09 pm
I just found out the answer to my own question from the Clerk’s Office – No, I can no longer change the plea and still go to traffic school. I can only request for traffic school when I fill out my TBD form in the event that I’m found guilty. Then it’s up to the judge/commissioner.
December 2nd, 2011 at 4:02 pm
Kat…You sound very sharp. How about this? Do TBWD and include what I think to be true – there is not photo enforcement sign at this one entrance to the city: 880 southbound at Mission/Warm Springs exit….21455.5 cvc or some other code no. specifically states that the city can either put the sign up at each enforced intersection or at each entry to the city. If there is no sign, then Fremont has not complied with the law. Send an email to city clerk of Fremont – “public records act request” and ask for any document listing where the warning signs are placed. They have 10 days to respond with the document. Drive 880 s/b and see for yourself. Submit documentation w/TBWD. Ask the judge in TBWD for traffic school (and/or community service if you like) if found guilty. All this does not take much time but it does take a few minutes here and there, so don’t procrastinate. I believe you can get a 30 day extension by phone if all this is tough to work into your schedule.
Roger rlouisj@aol.com
Question the clarity of the photo and the late time on the data bar are possible defenses.
please email me so I can communicate directly
p.s. I have never witnessed anyone denied, if eligible, traffic school and other than Lonsdale I have never witnessed anyone denied community service. Is that an option?
December 3rd, 2011 at 11:24 pm
I just wanted to let you know of another option in case it hasnt been mentioned. I drive for a living here in Orange County and I got a red light ticket while making a right turn. I cant afford to get any points on my record so I decided to take the risk and hired a traffic attorney which cost me $300. It is a gamble, because if you loose you are out the fines plus the $300. Fortunately I won and it only cost me the price of the attorney.
December 7th, 2011 at 4:04 pm
Sherry! Sherry! Sherry!
Thank you, guys, for your wonderful blog and amazing referral!
Little background so that peops don’t have to search for my old post:
I got rolling red right turn camera ticket in Millbrae, found this blog, found referral to South San Francisco Attorney – Sherry G., setup an appointment with her assistant, went there with my paperwork, pay little fee. Week later my case was dismissed for “the luck of evidence”. Thank you, guys, for all your help.
Stas
December 7th, 2011 at 6:20 pm
Hi aren.
I am in oakland and got ticket, i looked it up and it is totally me, the only thing is the vehicle is in my moms name and the ticket is in my name and sent to our old address, we have moved way before i got the ticket and i believe the information with DMV has been updated., did it get forwarded to me because im on the insurance? i dont want to lie, i just dont want to pay the full amount, and to go to traffice school cost more than just the bail.. please which is the cheapest solution ? btw, It was never mailed “certified” to my new address, so how do they know i ever received it. I was afraid that since i viewed the video online they may know i received it that way? what are your thoughts?? thanks Nicole
December 8th, 2011 at 11:35 pm
Stas G – It would be helpful if you could post why your ticket was dismissed. I have seen many tickets dismissed in interest of justice…more so when represented by an atty. Can you give us some info?
Thanks.
December 8th, 2011 at 11:41 pm
Nicole: The red light camera cop probably recognized that the image of the owner of the car (Driver’s license photo) did not match the image of the driver. It is pretty easy for police to look up other licensed drivers at the same address. That is probably how they found your driver’s license photo and put the ticket in your name. Your ticket is probably past the due date and maybe a civil assessment of $300 has been applied by now. Your story will help in getting rid of the extra $300 penalty, but it does not deal with the underlying ticket. There are many defenses – some rather technical – on these camera tickets but you have provided no information. If you do not do anything I think eventually your license will be suspended. You could share your ticket info with the editor of website: highwayrobbery.net, or myself, or Sherry Gendelman, Atty, SSF., perhaps.
December 8th, 2011 at 11:42 pm
Stas G: Can you contact me please by email…rlouisj@aol.com
December 9th, 2011 at 2:27 am
i got caught with red light camera ticket two years ago. when i bought my car from my landlord the ticket went to him. the landlord went to 850 bryant and gave him my information but i haven’t received anything in the mail about the ticket. i went to look up my dmv record and the ciation is under my record and i got point on my insurance from it. is there any suggestion on how i can fight this? in my defense i know i got the ticket because of my land lord but what if i say i never saw the previous owner of the car since i bought the car and never knew about this penalty. coould i admit guilt but go to traffic school. because i never received the ticket or anything in the mail. and i lived in at my house since i was born. i also paid every ticket i ever got and had a perfect record until i looked up my dmv record. but i feel if i never received anything in the mail how could i know if i ever got the ticket until after checking my record and the point on my insurance. plus i registered by lincese during the viloation on my record and dmv never said anything about it. my point is how can i fight this if i pretend i never knew about this. pls help thank you
December 9th, 2011 at 3:38 pm
Chris – first I would get whatever documentation exists from the courthouse, police dept., and perhaps DMV. Copy of citation, dates, times, license plate no.s, etc. Then repost with information.
December 9th, 2011 at 3:42 pm
Kat – did you say you filed a not guilty plea by Written Declaration but did not ask for traffic school if found guilty? I have seen people get on calendar at arraignment and ask for traffic school even after the case was over and it was granted.
December 12th, 2011 at 2:14 pm
Hello I just received a mail in the ticket for red light camera. I swear I passed the line right when the light turned yellow, but didn’t necessarily make it all the way to the other side….caught my car in the middle of the lane as it was red.
1. How can i red the late timing on the ticket? It’s confusing?
2. Should I just go to court and try to fight it? I read above and you said I’ll lose, but I also double checked the red light area and NO SIGNS are posted that this is a photo enforced area and thought it would be in my favor to try and fight it. Let me know what I can do.
BTW i received the ticket at Geary and Franklin (in San Francisco)
December 12th, 2011 at 2:38 pm
Hi, I accidentally ran a red light on Market street the other day and saw the camera flash. I’m new to driving in SF and was behind a Muni train at night…it slowed down and as the light turned red, I ended up stuck in a spot where I couldn’t tell if I was behind the lines or inside the intersection. I decided to just go the rest of the way once the train went rather than be stuck in a dangerous spot, and it flashed, so I’m pretty sure I’ll get a ticket.
I’m wondering what I should do – if I want my fee lowered and to take traffic school do I plead guilty or not guilty? I’m a little confused by your article. At first I read that I should pay it, plead not guilty, and then get it lowered to $80 total with traffic school. Then I read that if I plead not guilty I won’t be offered traffic school and will lose anyway, so I’m not sure exactly what to do. I’d like to keep the points off my record which is perfect, and get the fee lowered as much as possible. Please email me with any advice – thanks!
December 12th, 2011 at 2:40 pm
What intersection? As far as I know, there are no cameras on Market Street. If you saw a flash, it might have been a spark from the train’s overhead electrical connection.
December 12th, 2011 at 3:19 pm
Aren – I don’t know the exact intersection I was at, but it wasn’t near downtown – closer to Church or Castro. It did look just like a camera flash…and it wasn’t directly above the train. I wonder if there is a list online somewhere of San Francisco red light cameras?
December 12th, 2011 at 3:24 pm
There is: http://www.sfmta.com/cms/venf/14440.html
There are no cameras in that area.
December 13th, 2011 at 12:20 pm
Roger or Aren,
I recieved a ticket at Geary and Franklin. Looked at the picture and I see my car behind the lines at 2Y3 and R00 and my car crossing the line at .08 and R01….can’t really decipher the meaning if my car actually cross the lines at yellow but didn’t make it all the way to the end.
I can’t afford to pay 480 and don’t want the points on record? what should I do? Should I go to court next Tuesday and try to fight it?
December 13th, 2011 at 3:46 pm
Jenny K:: Aren knows better than I, but I looked up the data bar on another ticket.
Photo #1 taken when your car is at the limit line has a number in upper right. Something like R00.4 Photo #2 has a different number in the same position – maybe something like R1.01 Anyway the number in photo #1 is the amount of time the light was red when you approached the limit line. The number in photo #2 is the amount of time the light has been red when the photo of your car was taken. Usually about one or so seconds after the #1 photo.
2Y3 may be the yellow light time – I am not sure.
December 14th, 2011 at 7:33 pm
I just received my Automated Red Light Citation in the mail yesterday. South Van Ness Ave at 14th Street. $480!! From the looks of the pictures and the readings I guess I was guilty. Red time was .8 of a second when I crossed into the intersection. Not sure I blink that fast, but what the hey. I don’t have $480 to pay this ticket. Should I show up, plead guilty and see if they’ll have mercy? I don’t live in the city and the monster truck next to me coming up Van Ness scared the crap out of me so I just tried to ditch him at that light. Do I have any chance of getting this ticket reduced???
December 15th, 2011 at 5:39 am
In early Nov I received a citation for violation V21453A (which I believe to be a right turn on a red without stopping long enough) that says ‘date of this notice Nov 7th)
It was sent to my old address, then forwarded, even though my new address is on my drivers license. I don’t have record of when I actually received the ticket.
On Nov 17 I went to the hall of Justice as described, and was told they don’t do that anymore, that I had to write to the city attorney. I wrote to the city attorney and faxed my request for the Photo Prosecution Packet. I included my correct mailing address in the request.
On 11-29, the day after the ‘due date’ on the original ticket, I got my packet (after it was re-routed from the wrong address).
Dec 4th I broke my leg and was admitted to the hospital for a week and was heavily medicated.
So now I have my photo prosecution packet (it’s hard to tell, but it’s me) and a broken leg, and the inability to drive myself anywhere.
What do I do now? Can I request a court date and beg for the $80 deal still? Can I request a court date without going to court before the date? Traveling is a nightmare for me, I have to find someone to take me, it hurts, all that fun stuff. Please, any advice…
December 15th, 2011 at 2:16 pm
To Going Crazy….Call the courthouse and ask for an extension. Ask them many of the questions you asked here. If the picture is not clearly you, then I would suggest asking a judge to dismiss your ticket. Maybe by mail if not in person. You need to do something in order to avoid a “failure to appear” and the $300 assessement.
December 15th, 2011 at 3:50 pm
Roger, any advise for me?
December 15th, 2011 at 4:16 pm
Mags..If you give me citation no. and pin no. maybe I can figure something out. I know ways to lessen the pain here in Fremont because I know how each of 3 judges operates, more or less. I don’t know about SF judges.
Is community service an option? Is calling Sherry Gendelman, atty in SSF an option? Is spending time on a legal defense an option? I don’t have a magic wand, but will do what I can…rlouisj@aol.com
December 16th, 2011 at 1:36 pm
Hi Aren / All
PLEASE HELP
Just got a ticket (red light violation) at Octavia Blvd and Oak Str in San Francisco for $480.
I was in the middle lane, which is designated to go straight, however, I was trying to move over into the lane on my right hand side which is designated for a right hand turn. As I was trying to switch lanes the traffic was so heavy that no one wanted to let me in so I ended up going almost all the way to the light.
The light was red for straight and GREEN to turn right (for the two lanes on the right side) I squeezed into the lane on the right and proceeded as the light was GREEN. Somehow, camera got me but on the photo it is clear that I am turning right and that the light is green, you can actually see the light being GREEN.
The only issue is that I changed right before the light, but, the lanes are perforated meaning you can still switch lanes. Not sure what to do? Should I challenge it or go to the office and see if they will reduce the fine?
What do you guys think I should do? Any advice is greatly appreciated.
Serge
December 16th, 2011 at 4:21 pm
Serge, I have seen two similar trials. They were violations where folks were in the left turn lane and merged into the through direction, however. L/T lane had a red; Straight had a green.
It is fairly easy (it seems to me) to beat, however, both defendants lost. You may have been guilty of an illegal lane change. This infraction cannot be photo enforced. In one case, the defendant agreed to plead guilty to an illegal lane change. The other case, the judge (who was not too bright) found him guilty of running the red.
To me, it seems that the difference is in the way you state your case. Most people do not do a very good job.
Anyway, I would suggest a Trial by Written Declaration. Get some help drafting your defense. If not successful, you have 30 days to have a trial (Trial de Novo) before a real judge or commissioner. Interested???
December 16th, 2011 at 9:23 pm
Here is my situation. I ran a red light without knowing about it until my friends told me. According to them the light was red and I was still going, I didn’t speed or anything, I just kept GOING. They said they did not see the light flash however it was noon when this happen. The cars on either side of me were still, so I’m guessing the red light just turn red. My questions are:
1) How long will it take for the ticket to come in the mail.
2) Also since my car is register to my mum, will she be getting the letter? And what do I do to tell them that its me (because I do not want to wait another month for them to find out that its me. I admit I ran the light, I will pay the fine. And go to traffic school)
3) How many points will this be on my driving records. Should I get a driving record copy BEFORE they send me the letter?
4) Will this affect my insurance?
Basically, what do I do? First time, my driving record is clean. No other ticket.
December 17th, 2011 at 11:48 am
Hi Roger/Aren, anybody?
My mom received a red light citation at 19th ave and Sloat in SF.
The red light camera is on at 0.3 sec and on the picture her car is barely touching the intersection line, the speed of the car is at 31mph (speed limit is 35 or 40 there). On the picture there is another car behind my mom (probably also going 30). Can I challenge this citation by one of the methods:
1) Trial By Written Declaration and then Trial De Nuevo
or
2) Showing up to court on the date to appear, asking for lowered amount (how much they usually lower to?) and traffic school request
or
3) If perhaps you know of someone like Sherry (mentioned above) but in the SF county that would be of help?
Any of your advice is much appreciated.
December 17th, 2011 at 10:22 pm
@Roger J – thanks for the advice. I was planning to do a trial by written deceleration. Basically from the photo its hard to tell that i did anything wrong as you can clearly see my car turning right and the light is green. However, the lane change might be an issue.
Do you help people draft/review these letters or do you know someone who does?
December 18th, 2011 at 10:02 pm
Serge. I suggest one of the websites for help. Ticketbust.com is one that comes to mind. I recall reading that for about $159 or so, they will prepare a defense. Why not google some of these sites. Refunds are often offered of part of the fee if unsuccessful. Suggest a defense:
Only 21453 cvc can be photo enforced.
While you were cited for 21453 you did make a movement prevented by a red light or red arrow. You did make an illegal lane change but that is not photo enforceable.
Will you let me or this blog know what you do?
December 18th, 2011 at 10:10 pm
Dima…
Sherry Gendelman appears in court all over the Bay Area. Call and discuss options with her.
I don’t know specifically how much SF judges knock off for a quick plea of guilty. Some courts/judges knock off $100. I don’t know SF. Traffic School costs extra ($54 or $57) and is eligible to all but commercial drivers every 18 months. Even if plea of Not Guilty most judges still OK traffic school.
I am amazed at the number of people who never even ask the judge to rule on the clarity of the photograph. I tell people over and over – that they are the worst judge of whether it is clear beyond a reasonable doubt that it is a picture of them. Read up on this at website – highwayrobbery.net
December 18th, 2011 at 10:16 pm
Jenny. Your story is familiar. Relax and check mail daily. You and your mom’s. Ticket must be mailed within 11 days and received in 15 days (I think). If a ticket arrives, write the date on the envelope and save the envelope with postmark. Repost or write me when a ticket arrives. Do NOT let your Mom “nominate” you. If you feel guilty and do not require the State to prove it, just mail $500. (or give it to your Mom to mail).
December 19th, 2011 at 10:11 pm
Thanks for the reply Roger.
Do you mean “I” have to mail it within 11 days and “they” received in 15 days or the mail post should come within 11 days? And why is it that I cannot let my mom nominate me? Like I said, I know I clearly ran the light and I will pay the fines, so it should be fine if I put my name and whatnot on the paper that ask who this person is right?
Thanks for your help.
December 20th, 2011 at 7:35 am
Jenny….There are many ways to perhaps “beat” the ticket or get a lesser fine. If you have made up your mind to pay fine, the court will be more than happy to accommodate you.
December 26th, 2011 at 11:05 pm
hey roger i got flashed today i bought my car from dealership paid off but it only came with the back plate,i never went to the D.M.V to get front plate.the only thing i got on the front plate is the dealerships number and title,but i bought this car a year ago its a Chevy classic will they still be able to get me for a ticket like this i Don’t have anything on my record at all.when i got the car from dealership it had no tinted windows now it does……….
December 27th, 2011 at 2:10 am
I was turning right on a red light on my way to church. I know that i stop and i have my pasenger to prove it. Me and him know that we stop then turn right for that there is no sign “no right turn on red.” i know there is a cop behind me about 100-150ft thats why i know i have to stop carefully.. However the cop pulled me over and said i did not stop but he said he just saw me slowed down… He gave me a ticket and put about “6-8mph” on the ticket:( i got the mail and it is over 500 dollars… I don’t know why it came up that much for it should only be around 400:( on the ticket the cop put the wrong information. He put the previous owner of the car in the ticket as the owner of the car instead of me… Its crazy because i gave him my registration and my name is in there… I am thinking of making an appeal about this because i just dont wanna pay for the things that i believe i did not do… The time i got pulled over the cop ask me for my insurance, i gave it to him but i dont have the updated proof of insurance, but my car is insured .. He said i might get a ticket for that but he did not get a ticket for that instead gave me a warning to get an updated one.. Do i have a change of wining for that i have my passenger as my witness and that the cop put the wrong information in the ticket? Thank u..
December 27th, 2011 at 10:27 am
Juan….wait 15 days and see if a ticket arrives. SF uses the front license plate to identify the car, I believe. I doubt if you will get a ticket.
December 27th, 2011 at 5:02 pm
hello, i got flashed at a intersection in san francisco down town. and i got a letter from enterprice rental car, to pay a fee i order to see the red light ticket. and i had oregon license at the time. then i moved to new mexico so i got a driver license from there.its been 4 months since then,i have not done anything yet… any sugestions please.
December 27th, 2011 at 9:28 pm
thanks roger, but will they probably call the dealership and try to get them to identify my in the car or what do you think will they do all that type of investigation to find out about the my car..the front license plate had the name and the number to the place i bought it from a year ago……………
December 28th, 2011 at 1:50 pm
Hi Arren,
I made a left turn on Mission at 15th and got a ticket for $480. In the first picture, when I am just behind the white line, the light is not red. The second picture shows me halfway through my turn, and you can clearly see the glow of the red light in that one. I was defnitely pushing it, but did not enter the intesection on red. I know that they say the cameras only snap when the light is red, but the “evidence” in this case clearly demonstrates otherwise. What do you think? I appreciate any advice.
Thank you,
Kelly
December 28th, 2011 at 10:19 pm
Hi, someone I know ran a red light at a camera intersection in my car and I received the ticket in my name. I responded to the questionnaire by saying, “I am not the driver in the photo.” and mailed it to the camera company in Arizona. I don’t want to give the name of the driver since i’m not required to do so. I received a notice from the court that I must appear no later than Jan. 6. I realize it is wishful thinking that my statement will cause them to drop the ticket against me, but how do I find out if, in fact, they have? Do I call the local police dept. to see if it’s been dropped? Should I still show up in court? What happens when I go to court?
Any help is greatly appreciated.
December 29th, 2011 at 4:57 pm
Juan….Doubtful that much research will go into this by police. Don’t worry unless you get something in the mail. Or if a couple months go by and still no word, call the Superior Court in SF and ask if there are any citations in your name.
December 29th, 2011 at 5:02 pm
Veronica, Assuming you received a real ticket and not a “snitch” ticket (see snitch ticket at highwayrobbery.net website)…what you do kind of depends on how much the photo ticket looks like you. If it is obviously not you, I would suggest a Trial by Written Declaration including a copy of your driver’s license photo. If the photo is of someone who looks like you, then do you have any evidence that it is not you….time card from work, or something that shows it could not have been you. email rlouisj@aol.com with citation no. and such if you want me to have a look.
December 29th, 2011 at 7:58 pm
I need some advice. I just got my red light ticket violation in the mail for $480 and i was not the driver. It was my friend who was driving. I was however in the passenger seat and the photo shows that i was in the passenger and my friend as the driver. Im the registered owner of the vehicle so i end up with the ticket. I want to contest the ticket but how should i proceed? I read that i dont have to identify the driver and i do not want to identify him. What actions should i take?
December 30th, 2011 at 8:12 am
Britney – Pretty easy depending on the photo on the ticket. If it is CLEARLY not you, just go to arraignment – show the judge. Judge will not ask you who was driving. (If he does you do not have to answer). Just ask that the ticket be dismissed for lack of evidence. If the driver looks kinda like you and perhaps a judge may not dismiss it….Mail it back (to AZ most likely) – but if the driver can be tied to your address (like he lives with you at either your address on license or address of reg. owner of car) an enterprising cop may take the time to reissue the ticket in his/her name. These things can be done by TBWD, too. There are ways to get in front of a judge which do not require hours waiting in line – depending on courthouse. Are you sure you have a real ticket and not a SNITCH TICKET?? rlouisj@aol.com
December 30th, 2011 at 5:43 pm
Yes it is a real ticket. The photo shows that I was in the passenger seat and my friend as the driver. He doesn’t live at my address or have any association to me, only as a friend. Is my dismissal inevitable?
December 31st, 2011 at 4:53 pm
Britney It certainly sounds like a dismissal to me. Do it by Trial by Written Declaration. Then Trial de Novo if unsuccessful. Or go to arraignment in person before a judge. I sure would like a copy of your citation. I thought passengers’ were masked in photo tickets. What city cited you?
December 31st, 2011 at 5:31 pm
Happy new year. I need some advice. I just got my red light ticket violation in the mail for $480. My twin brother was the driver and I was in the passenger seat. We look pretty alike so I don’t know if I fight it I could win without disclosing his info.
Also the ticket requires that the real driver be identified by name and DOB on the mail-back form. How do I avoid putting down my brother’s name? We were visiting SF and really far away so I can’t attend court in person. He lives in another state so he has nothing identifiable via my registered address. What should I do?
Many thanks
January 2nd, 2012 at 7:50 pm
So I’m just like everyone else on the site, and got a ticket for turning right on a red in the mail. Lucky me it even included a video. I’m very tempted to call Sherry Gendelman in the morning to ask for advice/representation, but am afraid of more fees. Aren and Roger seem to have some pretty amazing advice, so let me know if you have any idea if I can contest the ticket and the best way to proceed. I like the idea of trial by written declaration… Please let me know if you have any idea as to what I can do to fight this… I received a ticket for speeding on 280 and completed traffic school this summer, so I believe I’m not eligible for traffic school. I’d like to fight this to the end to avoid the $480 fee, and all other points! Thanks for helping me learn so much about a subject I wish I had no idea about!
January 2nd, 2012 at 8:28 pm
I don’t know if it helps, but there was no signage that the intersection had cameras..
January 3rd, 2012 at 1:22 am
Josh….there are many legal/technical ways to defend yourself. You have not provided any detailed information. You could give the info to someone who can actually look at the violation, city, intersection and such. Either editor of highwayrobbery.net, Aren, or myself perhaps. Or call Gendelman. No one has any slam dunks without detailed info. rlouisj@aol.com
January 3rd, 2012 at 1:27 am
Leo. I suggest a Trial by Written Declaration. Include documents about your twin brother. Let’s say you include a copy of his driver’s license and say he was driving. Will that result in your brother getting a citation. I doubt it, but cannot say. How about including other documents which do not give his home address or driver’s license no. Copy of each’s birth certificate, class photos from yearbook showing both of you and such or other photo ID.
January 3rd, 2012 at 9:15 am
I recently got a red light ticket at an in intersection in Napa. How can I get an example of a trial by written declaration to fight the ticket??
January 3rd, 2012 at 7:57 pm
I just got a red light camera notice from SF, driving NB on 9th St at Howard. I remember the incident clearly. I was just coming off the freeway and was confused about which lane to be in on 9th. I saw the red light too late, so I braked hard and stopped over the crosswalk. I didn’t want to stick out into the intersection and possibly get hit by cross traffic on Howard, so I backed up until I was again behind the crosswalk. (It was scarry, because I could see a wall of cars rushing up 9th toward me, but I had time to back up before they got to me. My wife was with me and remembers the whole thing.) I’m sure the light was red while I was backing up. But I did not proceed very far at all into the intersection, and I immediately backed out.
The photo site for my citation has only two photos, one showing me just before the crosswalk (ie no violation yet), and one showing me with my front tires just over the far side of the crosswalk (ie before I had backed up). There are no pics showing my car farther into the intersection, because I don’t believe I got much farther, before backing up. (I don’t know exactly how far I got into the intersection, but I had backed up enough to leave plenty of room before the cross traffic arrived.)
The web page with the photos says my “Yellow Time” was 3.5 and my “Red Time” was 0.8. It also says my speed was 18 and the speed limit was 15, which is weird. (Not sure what the speed limit is on 9th St, but I’m sure it’s more than 15 mph.) To the right of the “cat face” image in the black box on the first pic is “R008″, with the “8″ in superscript. To the right of the cat face image on the second photo, it says “R022″, with the second “2″ in superscript. What do those figures mean? Nowhere can I figure out how to decipher this infor, and particularly, to figure out how much time elapsed between the two pictures.
This is my first moving violation since 1999, and only the second one in 35 years of driving. Should I contest this in court to avoid the point on my record and maybe higher insurance? Can I contest the citation by mail? (Most people on this blog seem to show up in person, but I live almost 40 mi outside SF.) Is there any chance that there are additional photos somewhere, showing that I didn’t proceed further into the intersection beyond the crosswalk, and that I had backed out of it before the cross traffic arrived?
Thank you for this great site and any help you can offer.
January 3rd, 2012 at 9:53 pm
Lucinda. see TBWD instructions: http://www.napacountyduilawyer.com/pdf/tr200.pdf Get copy of form from same webadress except tr205.
Give citation, lic plate no. and city code to Aren, me, or editor@highwayrobbery.net to have someone look for ideas on defenses. Go to highwayrobbery.net and go to “camera towns” go to “Napa” Read up on the matter.
January 3rd, 2012 at 9:55 pm
Jimm…see comments above directed to Lucinda.
January 4th, 2012 at 5:01 am
Hello,
Great website! Thank you for the valuable information and help. I was sent a no stop on red right turn ticket. I had to reply by the 9th of Jan in Oakland. Yesterday I called the clerk office and they extended my ticket another month. I have amajor problem because my license is expired and the ticket was sent under my name and the photo sort of looks like me. I was thinking about sending the letter stating it wasn’t me driving and I don’t know who it is / putting down my mums info because her fine could possibly be reduced since she is valid. Also does the clerk put comments in my record after speaking w me because I told him it wasn’t me? I am a student and have no cash flow at all? What us my best option? Please help! Thank you!
January 4th, 2012 at 2:35 pm
Thanks Roger, I couldn’t do trial by written declaration because my deadline for court is Jan. 6. I went to the courthouse and spoke to the clerk instead and asked to go to court. She asked if I had told the company in AZ who the driver is and I said, no because I’m not required to do so by law. She then said, they could hold you responsible for this ticket since you don’t know who the driver is. I said, I thought I was innocent until proven guilty, and that clearly is not me, so I don’t understand how I’d be responsible. Clearly annoyed, she said, well, you can explain that in court. I have to go to court tomorrow morning. I will post what happens. Thanks for the great site.
January 4th, 2012 at 5:01 pm
Nuu…I would not swear to something which is not true. Are you saying you were cited for driving without a license, too?? The clerk will not testify against you. Clerk will not enter what you say into “the record.” You can show the photo ticket to judge at arraignment and ask for a dismissal since it is not a clear enough photo to ID you. You can mount a hearsay defense or other “legal” type defense but you have provided no information on when and where the infraction occurred.
January 4th, 2012 at 5:03 pm
Veronica….If it is clearly not you show the judge your photo ticket and ask for a dismissal on the grounds that the person in the photo is clearly not you. This sort of thing gets a dismissal often. Now, this would be at your arraignment. Judge will not ask you who the driver was, not do you have to answer that question.
January 11th, 2012 at 12:30 pm
I have begun to form a group to organize protests against the Red Light Cameras. Initially, this will take shape in Fremont, then Newark and Hayward. If you want to attend the first strategy meeting, it is being held at Mountain Mike’s Pizza in Fremont on Monday, Jan. 16 at 7:00 pm. It is located in the Brookvale Shopping Center at Nicolet and Fremont Blvd (35760 Fremont Blvd) Jan 16th is a holiday for most people.
Even if you cannot attend this meeting, please add your voice of support to the “Meetup Group” website at:
http://www.meetup.com/Red-Light-Camera-Protest-Group-of-Southern-Alameda-County/
The initial idea to be discussed is to have monthly protests at certain “high value” camera intersection – signs and banners, etc. on Saturdays for example. rlouisj@aol.com
January 11th, 2012 at 9:57 pm
Hi there,
I’d appreciate guidance on a first time red light violation. According to my citation, it lists my actual speed as 21 while the speed limit was 15. It lists the yellow time as 3.4 and the red time as 0.3. I’m certain I crossed the line while it was still yellow. I don’t believe this should be a traffic violation.
Please help clarify the difference between the yellow time and red time. Is this worth showing up in court or would you recommend that I pay the fine?
Thank you in advance for the help!
January 11th, 2012 at 10:50 pm
Christine….It is much easier to offer information if you provide more details, especially the information with which someone else can view the photos and video on-line.
Anyway….yellow time is the length of the yellow light. The yellow light time must be set at a minimum which is related to the speed limit of the roadway. Red time on a photo ticket refers to the number of seconds the light was red when you reached the limit line. Whether to show up in court depends on the city which cited you, the details of the infraction, how much your time is worth to you. rlouisj@aol.com
p.s. I am curious what photo enforced approx. carries a speed limit of 15 mph. I am not aware of any. It does not make sense.
January 15th, 2012 at 6:08 am
Any advice – turning right from Park Presidio into Lake on red I got ticketed. No video, but one picture shows me before crossing the white line, the second at turn at 16 MPH. I cannot see a proof of violation – my Infiniti G35 can easily move from stop to 16 MPH in 1.75 Seconds as the pictures show. I have my court date Tuesday and would appreciate any advice here. Thank you!
January 17th, 2012 at 12:17 pm
Hi Roger,
Thanks for the informative website. Please help me with my first automated red light camera ticket. The amount is $480 and i couldn’t afford to pay it. The first pic in the notice shows the traffic light already in red with my car behind the intersection line. I remember how it happened that night. I forced my way through the intersection when the traffic light turned yellow, thinking I would have enough time to pass the intersection before it turns red. Hence, my speed (40mph) is above the 35mph speed limit.
What do you suggest I should do? Would trial by written declaration work?
Thanks so much in advance!
January 17th, 2012 at 9:05 pm
Zalman….You waited until the last minute. Good luck. Whatever happens should be posted here. It seems to take hours or even a day for a posting to appear and no time for an interchange of postings. My email address is on this blog. Roger
January 17th, 2012 at 9:07 pm
Alvin, Without more detail it is impossible to give you all of the possible consequences or alternatives.
January 19th, 2012 at 6:02 am
Ban The Cams Protest Demonstration: When: Saturday, Feb 4th at 12:00 Noon Where:Corner of Mowry Ave. & Fremont Blvd. in Fremont Pick up a sign behind Valero Gas Station. Why: Red Light Cameras are all about REVENUE and NOT about SAFETY
January 19th, 2012 at 4:59 pm
Hi Roger,
Thanks for keeping eyes against those evil red light camera systems for us first. I need your help. I just got my first automated red light camera ticket and I confirmed it is not a snitch ticket. I know I am guilty and regret about it, but I really don’t want to pay $500+.
Place: E.4th AVE & S. Humboldt St, San Mateo. (not in SF, so still please help me)
Speed: Speed limit is 30mph, but my car is 34 mph.
The video showed my car drove thru the intersection during the red light. (I really feel bad), but the pic of my face is pretty blur. I can hardly see my eyes.
My friends in LA said their city court drop the red light camera system and hence they said they will ignore the ticket. That sounds very dangerous for me.
What do you recommend? Can I do anything for the blurry pic of my face? Looking forward for your recommendation. Thanks.
January 19th, 2012 at 7:31 pm
John – Going to arraignment and asking the commissioner to dismiss based on an unclear photo is one way to go. Unfortunately, many commissioners do not use the standard of proof: “beyond a reasonable doubt” that it is you in the photo. Just the opposite: “I cannot tell beyond a reasonable doubt that it is NOT you.” A significant cost to fight a ticket is how to get to arraignment without waiting in line (35 degrees). Call the court and see how to get to arraignment without devoting 4 hours of your day. Bringing photos of other licensed drivers in your household or work with could help, but this might have to wait until trial. I think traffic attys can achieve some very good results and is worth exploring. Sherry Gendelman is one of the most well known in the county.
January 20th, 2012 at 2:31 am
Hey everyone,
I’ve got a 3 quick questions. First of all my experience happened making a right turnon a very foggy night close to 2am here in orange county. The night was really cloudy you could barely see about 5 ft infront of your vehicle now I was hittin between 35 to 40mph now I was able to see the red light but suddenly last second I saw the crosswalk lines and I hit the brake for a quick second till that flash came on I thought someone flashed theyre lights at me so I let go of the brakes and proceeded but realized it was a camera flash. So my 3 questions are…
1. Is it possible for those cameras to catch you when its really foggy?
2. This was on Dec 31st around 1:45am Its been 21 days and no ticket am I safe?
3. Is there a website I can look up of I got a ticket by entering my plates?
January 20th, 2012 at 4:32 pm
Ricky…You appear to be in good shape. Ticket should have been mailed to the registered owner by now. If it arrives after this, save the envelope with postmark and repost. Google the Superior Court of Orange County to find where you can enter your name and see if you have a citation….or just call the court.
January 21st, 2012 at 3:12 am
@ Roger Thanks man really appreciate the feedback
January 23rd, 2012 at 12:49 pm
Hi there, do you know if the trial + traffic school option is the same format for Santa Cruz County’s court system? The options are not clear on the citation. They say I can either: 1. pay the bill and I MIGHT be eligible for traffic school, it is TBD by the court, or 2. request a trial date when an officer will be present. Does this mean that if I take #2, they will give me the option to negotiate for the discounted fine and traffic school or will I automatically be giving up my right to traffic school? (I’m mostly interested in not getting a point on my driving record but also want to get a lower fine). Thanks, your site is really helpful!
January 24th, 2012 at 5:14 pm
Christine….If there has been 18 months since you last attended traffic school, then you are eligible. You have a right to attend traffic school if you plea guilty. If you plea Not Guilty but you are found guilty, the judge does not have to grant you traffic school. I have seen about 12 judges and I have never heard of anyone denied permission to attend traffic school. I did hear the commissioner in Redwood City does not grant traffic school for Not Guilty pleas.
TBD does not affect your eligibility.
January 25th, 2012 at 6:36 pm
I just received a ticket at Westborough and Hickey near Costco for a rolling stop on a red light. But the photo was not clear enough to tell it was me.
What do you suggest I should do?
Here’s my information:
Notice # 0421200003992
Pin # 2890
Thank you
January 26th, 2012 at 1:39 pm
@Roger: thank you so much for the clarification about the citation. This is my first one so I have not taken traffic school before…I definitely want that option so I can keep the point off my record.
Regarding the options listed at the top–Trial + Traffic School, it’s my understanding that you only get to trial if you plead “not guilty” is this correct? So, it sounds like if my main priority is avoiding the point, then I need to suck it up and pay the full fine instead of trying to gamble with the system and get a reduced fine at a trial in case they do find me guilty and do not offer traffic school?
Thanks for your help!
January 27th, 2012 at 12:07 am
Hey Roger,
I received a red light ticket on Franklin and Geary back in Dec. It was late and dark and the photo is not clear AT ALL! I find it hard to believe anyone can prove beyond a reasonable doubt it was me. Plus I was making a left hand turn, traveling below the speed limit, and was flashed a 1/100 of a second. I truly believe the light was yellow. I filed for a written declaration, and still have not received my form in the mail. At the courthouse I gave the clerk a written informal discovery and insisted they give me proof of receipt. I also filed an informal discovery with the District Attorney via certified mail as directed by the Clerk at the SF Superior Courthouse. I used the form/outline on http://www.highwayrobbery.com My informal request stated that the receiving party must respond to my discovery within 14 days. It has now been 14 days and I have not heard from the Court, the District Attorney, or City Attorney.
My questions are
1)Can my case be dismissed if no one responds to my discovery?
2) My photo is very blurry and is my main defense, but if they disregard that point can I also fight the lack of signage, inability to stop safely, malfunction of the camera (since they refused to provide the subpoenaed information) etc. With a written declaration can I argue multiple points, even if I’m fighting the driver might not be me? Or do I just fight the blurry photo and if found guilty, appeal using the other arguments?
Thank you so much for any help!
-Brittany in SF
January 28th, 2012 at 12:54 am
Christine. A plea of guilty with a request for traffic school seems like a good option if the photo is clear and it does not require a big investment of time. You could also ask for Community Service. You might have to make a statement about financial hardship and such to be granted that option. It is a bit ususual to plea Guilty by TBWD but I can tell you my personal experience. I turned my “plea by written declaration” in letter format to the judge. I had previously transferred my case to a different court to where the judge was known to be lenient. I wrote him a letter and said I was guilty and that I would like traffic school and community service. This worked. I guess the safe bet would be to get in front of the judge, however.
January 28th, 2012 at 12:59 am
Brittany…I do not know much about discovery requests. highwayrobbery.net deals with this but I have not read up on the matter. Have you actually submitted your Written Declaration or just requested the blank form. If you have filed your Written Declaration you can get a Trial de Novo where you get to start over in court. Bring up any matters you like whether or not they were included in Written Declaration.
January 28th, 2012 at 9:38 pm
Dear Roger / Aren,
First of all, this site is extremely helpful and appreciate all the posts from all users.
Today, I received a citation of $480 for Failure to Stop at a Red Light which I would like to avoid paying if possible. Pls see the details below and I’d appreciate any help you can offer:
- Crossing: Van Ness and 14th (San Francisco)
- Actual Speed: 21 Speed Limit: 15
Yellow Time: 3.4 Red Time: 1.3 Weather: DARK
- Options: 1) Pay up, 2) traffic school, 3) Court Trial, 4) Trial by written declaration (I do not see an option for court trial + Traffic school)
What happened: I was driving along van ness on a v rainy day, and I and braked a little late and just creeped over the white line barely after it was red. I did not move into the crossing and no more than half my front tire was ahead of the white line. I then gradually backed up as the road was clear – I did not continue to move forward into the crossing. There is no signage anywhere around that crossing stating that it is photo enforced.
I was able to check the photos on the site and while dark, they depict my car clearly. The notes also state my speed was 21mph against the limit of 15mph (which seems v low for that street).
I have a full clean driving license.
thank you in advance for your help. I would really like to know what my practical options are to avoid paying or pay a reduced fine. I am happy to attend traffic school, but will be out of the country for all of February.
R
January 29th, 2012 at 3:10 pm
As one registered owner of the vehicle that received a red light violation I was sent the citation. I certified that I was not the driver, but it was beyond the date to return by mail, so the other registered own, who was driving took the citation to court, and was told to go to another office to have it re-issued.
He has received the re-issued citation by mail, but I have also received a failure to appear citation. Why wouldn’t one action cancel the other?
January 29th, 2012 at 6:57 pm
Russell – I see many options. Too lengthy to type up. Let’s assume you have time to eventually have to appear in court. Or if not, I believe your chances are fewer. You can go to arraignment – show photos to judge and ask for a quick dismissal – and then plead Not Guilty if unsuccessful – or TBWD and then ask for Trial de Novo if that fails.
email me and we can set up a time to talk. rlouisj@aol.com
January 29th, 2012 at 7:00 pm
Jon S. Contesting a failure to appear is a separate matter from the ticket. Ask the window clerk for the form – something like Request to Vacate Civil Assessment. Did you get a notice of the $300 civil assessment?
Your reasons for failure to appear were 1. you never signed a promise to appear and 2. it took time to have the ticket issued in the driver’s name – all of which was taken care of. There should no longer be a ticket in your name…ask the window clerk to verify that.
January 29th, 2012 at 10:54 pm
Jon S. This might the form used to vacate the civil assessment.
http://www.alameda.courts.ca.gov/Resources/Documents/CivilAssessmentPetitionandOrder.pdf
January 30th, 2012 at 7:06 pm
Hi, i received a video ticket in the mail and it is not me. I live in Arizona and don’t want to give the id of the driver. Will I have to drive to California to fight it?
January 31st, 2012 at 9:10 am
Cal…Try Trial by Written Declaration. Forms are on line. Include a copy of your driver’s license photo. Hopefully it will clearly show it is not you. If it could be you, then that could be a problem. You could include a photo of the actual driver. Or photos of others who live with you who resemble the photo on ticket….If you lose, you can file for Trial de Novo. see highwayrobbery.net for more information.
January 31st, 2012 at 10:44 am
So I received a picture ticket for failure to stop at a Red Arrow Signal on Fell and Masonic. I never entered the intersection, but stopped in the crosswalk. It was 1:15 AM, and there wasn’t a sole around. The pictures never show me beyond the crosswalk, but merely stopped in it. If I take the time to go to court – are they going to say I technically violated the “Failure to Stop at Red Arrow Signal” merely for stopping in the crosswalk? Again, never went past the crosswalk into the intersection.
Thanks – what a great and informative webpage!
January 31st, 2012 at 3:24 pm
Gordon W….I have some ideas but a little too busy right now for a thoughtful response. In the meantime I would like to see you photos and video. If you can give me your citation no. and pin no. either here or to my email I will get back to you soon. rlouisj@aol.com
January 31st, 2012 at 3:25 pm
Protest Rally at Noon Saturday, Feb. 4th
The Red Light Camera Protest Group of Southern Alameda County will be holding a street corner protest at Mowry and Fremont Blvd. this Saturday at Noon. The group will focus the public’s attention to the fact that these camera programs are much more about revenue than safety and that overly aggressive enforcement is not reducing red light running.
January 31st, 2012 at 9:12 pm
Hi Roger,
I received a red light ticket last sunday at the intersection of Clayton and Twin peaks in SF. It was rainy dark night, I was going straight on Clayton toward portola. I saw the green arrow light signal for right turn and thought it was my green light for going straight. I passed this red light right in front of the police!
What are options for lessening the fee? Can I request a trial plea guilty and ask for traffic school or community service to pay off the ticket? is it still $480 for a red light ticket? Thanks so much for your time and advice!
February 2nd, 2012 at 2:06 am
chamying SF – I assume your ticket was a photo enforced one. and Not from the police who were right there…correct? I sense you do not have time to investigate any possible defenses based on possible incorrect placement of signal lights and such. Nor do you have time to review the many other posts dealing with your questions. I don’t know of any “magic wand” solutions. There are very few postings which give information about the SF traffic court judges actual practices on lowering the mandatory minimum fine by perhaps $100 for a quick plea of guilty like some judges in other jurisdictions do. I generally see community service is offered to most especially if they are students or underemployed. Traffic School is not a problem if you plead guilty and have not attended in the last 18 months. All this can be done by Written Declaration. Lawyer Sherry Gendelman knows much more and may be worth a call. She seems to be successful on many camera tickets.
February 2nd, 2012 at 12:36 pm
Hi Roger,
My dad just received a $480 ticket for failure to stop at red signal (VC21453A) when making a right turn. A video was available to view also. I’ve heard from people that you can go to court and plead guilty and the judge usually lowers the fine by a little bit. However, on the ticket, it doesnt give us the option of going to court to plead guilty. The court trial option is only for people who wish to contest the violate and plead Not Guilty. Can you please advise?
Thanks!
February 2nd, 2012 at 4:29 pm
eliang3118 Once again. Some judges grant a slight accommodation to those who appear before the bench and plead guilty. All depends. Your ticket is from SF? There are other ways to either “beat” the ticket or lessen the pain. Most depend on one’s willingness to fight. Is community service an option?
February 2nd, 2012 at 11:26 pm
Hi, just wanted to double check that the red light traffic cameras in San Francisco only take photos from the front. I set off the one on Mission and Seventh street. I was riding a motorcycle with only rear plates. I wasn’t even speeding. I just miscalculated my ability to make the light. Please tell me I’m gonna be okay.
February 3rd, 2012 at 12:11 pm
Jonathan….as far as I know. . front only.. Wait 2 weeks and see if mailman drops off a ticket.
February 4th, 2012 at 10:26 am
If you live in the East Bay – plan on attending the street protest TODAY (Saturday) starting in an hour or so. Corner of Mowry and Fremont Blvd. in Fremont. Signs provided. Festivities start at NOON and extend for who knows how long?
February 5th, 2012 at 8:34 pm
HI,
I just wanted everyone to know that the traffic cameras on Fell take pics/vid from from AND back.
I received one on the day that the haight/western addition had a major power outage and some of the signal lights were not working. I saw the flash go off before I even got to the crosswalk, but I received a ticket anyway. I imagine my best scenario is going to traffic school and getting it reduced, but it sucks because I didn’t cross the lines on red; even the video shows that. However, my ticket says two people reviewed it and found me guily
February 5th, 2012 at 11:10 pm
Really Hurting: You want to show me? I have never seen a camera ticket issued where the 2nd photo shows your car still behind the first white line. The 1st photo will show the vehicle behind the first white line. I just have not seen where both photos show the car behind the first white line. rlouisj@aol.com cite # and pin #